John Grisham speaks out on the future of pbooks and ebooks

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Coffee? Doughnuts?

Actually most every B&N has a coffee shop these days. The Ambiance in my mind is the Book store. Rows and shelves of books to peek at and browse through. Once you decide you want something then the convenience of the store (or eBook Kiosk) is available for the purchase. And a staff to help you should you need it.

Dale

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

no

Why not?

I've been using Audible, off & on, for several years. It's cost effective, if you pay attention. I've gotten some fine audiobooks at good prices, compared to buying CDs of the books.

I see no reason that something similar wouldn't work for ebooks. The pricepoints might be different than for abooks, but it seems to me that many of the problems consumers have with DRM could be avoided.

It also strikes me as a pretty good way for publishers to get out from under the thumb of Amazon et. al.

How about if the subscription were our old friend, $9.99?

[Xerxes]

I know I'm late to this, but where does all the money it takes to make those books go compared to making one small files that sits on a server.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Why not?

I've been using Audible, off & on, for several years. It's cost effective, if you pay attention. I've gotten some fine audiobooks at good prices, compared to buying CDs of the books.

I see no reason that something similar wouldn't work for ebooks. The pricepoints might be different than for abooks, but it seems to me that many of the problems consumers have with DRM could be avoided.

It also strikes me as a pretty good way for publishers to get out from under the thumb of Amazon et. al.

How about if the subscription were our old friend, $9.99?

perhaps our approaches are entirely different. I do audiobooks on car trips over 4 hours. other than that, I am interested in reading.

I don't like subscriptions

[llreader]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

perhaps our approaches are entirely different. I do audiobooks on car trips over 4 hours. other than that, I am interested in reading.

I don't like subscriptions

I have to second this. Once you pay a monthly fee, there is pressure to "use it up" and read more books than you might want or time will allow. Subscription-based music services have not fared well. There certainly is a small market of avid -philes who would be in heaven with this type of deal, but I doubt how many of them would remain enthusiastic month after month, year after year.

[zacheryjensen]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

I know I'm late to this, but where does all the money it takes to make those books go compared to making one small files that sits on a server.

The majority of work put into producing a book produces a file somewhere, probably in a program called InDesign. From there it goes either through an export process which includes another round of quality assurance (except for the lazier publishers who don't bother and are responsible for the crap eBook results you sometimes see) or it goes to the printers who are a relatively high volume sub-industry not adding a huge margin to the final product.

Then both books and eBooks get distributed someway. For example, it might go to amazon as an eBook or a redistribution warehouse to be sold on amazon as a pbook. In the former case amazon's dealing with the cost of bandwidth for browsing the catalog, and handling merchant transactions and customer service and all that. They will take 70% of the sale price of the book sending back 30% to the publisher. In the case of the paper books, I don't know how it's divided up, I would guess the publisher or redistribution center got to pick those prices.

Obviously some of the pbooks go to real physical stores, on semi-trucks or UPS trucks, or whatever, and take up real space on a real shelf that some other book might've better suited. There will be employees to pay that stack those books up and sell them to people, and look for the books that are kinda hard to find since every store organizes things differently (take a look at Borders children's section where they mix alphabetical ordering between author last name and series first word!) and then eventually add on the same costs of customer service and merchant transactions and all that.

So basically, either way you go, eBook or pBook you're touch potentially numerous hands. Though it's possible to vastly cut the fat with eBooks, it doesn't remove the effort going into the actual book production which only starts with the author, before editors and typesetters and artists for covers, and all that come into play.

eBook and pBook cost differences don't become apparent until a book has been published for quite some time, particularly after its popularity has died. At this point, the physical stores can't afford the space dedicated to it anymore. They carry few or no books resulting in zero sales. While the eBook can continue to take up a row in a database someplace and show up in relevant searchers or even resurge into popularity because of whatever unexpected reason the public gives it at the moment.

Monetarily the eBook has a better chance at benefiting from what is known as the "long tail" but that whole theory is alway embattled for validity so I won't get into it.

Still, when comparing new releases, there isn't much savings for that eBook compared to the pBook when everything's accounted for.

[markbot]

Assuming people don't pirate the digital books as they do in emerging markets, I think the publishers and writers are underestimating the secondary market effects. Digital books greatly reduce the size of the secondary market.....thus this allows the publishers to make more money.

the secondary market is a key difference between music and books that i think is lost on the publishers.

for example...college text books. the digital version can't be resold 4 different times. instead of making only $100 the first time it is sold at retail.....perhaps they sell this book at $50 to all 5 people...thus netting $250.

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by llreader

I have to second this. Once you pay a monthly fee, there is pressure to "use it up" and read more books than you might want or time will allow. Subscription-based music services have not fared well. There certainly is a small market of avid -philes who would be in heaven with this type of deal, but I doubt how many of them would remain enthusiastic month after month, year after year.

I don't think that music based subscription services are the right point of comparison, which is why I chose Audible to make my comparison.

You are right about the psychological pressure of the monthly fee, but the way most people on this board devour books, I don't see it as a big problem.

I think the key would be to reach a critical mass of available ebooks, and that might be the barrier since the big boys might start making exclusive deals to keep ebooks out of other formats. The one thing that a Readible service would need would be a spectrum of formats for each book.

[Janet54]

I subscribe to audible.com. If I read a book on my Kindle that I know my husband will enjoy I download it for him as he is not a book reader but loves to listen on audio.

Then we can discuss it. If we are traveling together I do not mind "hearing" it as I often pick up something I missed in the "reading". Double royalties for the author. My daughter does this as well.

[Olympus]

Originally Posted by Jack Tingle

No, but the flaw in your assumptions is that making a treebook and making an ebook are nearly identical processes, with a big cost saving if you skip some of the treebook steps. That's just not true. Omitting the printing steps saves (as best anyone can account for) about $1.

The camera-ready copy for a printing process, and a good ebook are not anywhere near identical. The ebook needs to be created from the copyeditor and proofreader's final output in a separate process than that which creates the camera ready copy. That costs $0.?? per book. The cost of servers and retail order processing (whoever does it) eats up another small part of that $1. It's no different than any other retail transaction fee. So the ebook has a unique production step, and unique distribution costs, that mostly eliminate its cost advantage.

Having worked as DTP'er for educational textbooks I can say that this is a totally wrong assumption.
When working as a professional you have all required styles for a book defined in a tag - all you do is tag the appropriated text and make sure no orphans are created, the header and the footer are consistent and the register is accurate. (This was for me the main reason to get started creating HTML - only tagged texts with a nice layout = very very similar)
Therefore a properly tagged manuscript can be used to create either a pBook AND an eBook. So an eBook can be the by-product of an pBook and has a lower costprice than an pBook.
Publishers are stupid by not reusing the half-product to catch up on the backlog on requested eBooks; and use their own stupidity as an lame excuse to price an eBook as a separate product.

I refuse to pay the full price for a byproduct that is cheaper to distribute and cheaper to reproduce

[Harmon]

Anyone who really wants to understand the business dynamic involved in selling pbook vs. ebooks needs to go to Black Plastic Glasses and read the "best of" posts at http://www.blackplasticglasses.com/2...hnittman-blog/

If you don't understand what drives the marketing of pbooks, you won't understand why the marketing of ebooks is a problem for publishers and resellers. It's not about the "costs" of making an ebook as compared to making a pbook. It's mainly about the cash flow.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Anyone who really wants to understand the business dynamic involved in selling pbook vs. ebooks needs to go to Black Plastic Glasses and read the "best of" posts at http://www.blackplasticglasses.com/2...hnittman-blog/

If you don't understand what drives the marketing of pbooks, you won't understand why the marketing of ebooks is a problem for publishers and resellers. It's not about the "costs" of making an ebook as compared to making a pbook. It's mainly about the cash flow.

Which is exactly why the model has to change.

Thanks for the link.

[eGeezer]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Anyone who really wants to understand the business dynamic involved in selling pbook vs. ebooks needs to go to Black Plastic Glasses and read the "best of" posts at http://www.blackplasticglasses.com/2...hnittman-blog/

Very good info and a fun read. But I don't see why "believing in ebooks" takes much soul-searching. I believe in ebooks, and don't even have a reader yet.

While only time (and actual ownership) will tell, his notion of pbook/ebook partnering holds little interest for me. My intent is to clear my shelves of books and keep it that way. I would have no interest in ebooks which require me buy the companion pbook, which I would never open.

His observation of the ereading device as mainly a "travel" object is certainly accurate to a point. Many people have stated how great it is to not have to take 5 pbooks on a trip -- only to find they needed a 6th. But I anticipate falling asleep with my ereading device in my hands -- whether in bed, or on the sofa -- as well as being with me on vacation. (Being retired, I don't travel much for business, unless it is the monkey kind). I fully expect it will travel in my backpack on hikes, and will be with me while car-camping and on flights. Although, it might be too tempting to use it to bean some rude wannabecop TSA employee at the security bottleneck.

His comparison of ebooks and audio books is a little off, however, since the mediums and uses are different. Because Olympus agrees with my original assumption on pbook/ebook costs, I will quote him here:

"Therefore a properly tagged manuscript can be used to create a pBook AND an eBook. So an eBook can be the by-product of an pBook and has a lower costprice than an pBook. "

Audio books take bit more to bring to market than an ebook under Olympus' scenario. I have no doubt the ebook niche will be much higher than the abook niche. Abooks don't require any special device beyond those readily available and are pretty much in their niche right now.

I do agree heartily with him that ebooks may well be a niche for many years to come, but the niche will be much larger -- perhaps as big as a nook (hee hee) or an alcove. Perhaps ebooks will take over the market some day, but not any time soon. After all, TV did not erase radio, and TV has pictures. (Yeah, I know. You don't hear any radio versions of CSI or Masterpiece Theatre, which just means each has found its purpose in life.)

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Which is exactly why the model has to change.

Question is, can it? Do you see any way that some publisher or reseller will abandon the pbook model for something involving ebooks?

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by eGeezer

While only time (and actual ownership) will tell, his notion of pbook/ebook partnering holds little interest for me. My intent is to clear my shelves of books and keep it that way. I would have no interest in ebooks which require me buy the companion pbook, which I would never open.

I would have such an interest. I'm a "place reader." That is, I tend to have books located in places where I anticipate reading, & read them when I am there. By my chair. By the bed. In my briefcase. By my coatrack at work. In the smallest room in the house. I could very easily buy a pbook and an ebook of the same book, and read it in paper form or on one of my ereaders, moving back & forth between them.

His observation of the ereading device as mainly a "travel" object is certainly accurate to a point. Many people have stated how great it is to not have to take 5 pbooks on a trip -- only to find they needed a 6th. But I anticipate falling asleep with my ereading device in my hands -- whether in bed, or on the sofa -- as well as being with me on vacation. (Being retired, I don't travel much for business, unless it is the monkey kind). I fully expect it will travel in my backpack on hikes, and will be with me while car-camping and on flights. Although, it might be too tempting to use it to bean some rude wannabecop TSA employee at the security bottleneck.

Yeah, travel seem to be the common denominator. I wonder if someone will figure out how to exploit that, affirmatively, rather than as a by product of the essential portability of ereaders.

His comparison of ebooks and audio books is a little off, however, since the mediums and uses are different. Because Olympus agrees with my original assumption on pbook/ebook costs, I will quote him here:

I wouldn't say entirely differnent. I'd say they overlap. The travel thing.

I do agree heartily with him that ebooks may well be a niche for many years to come, but the niche will be much larger -- perhaps as big as a nook (hee hee) or an alcove. Perhaps ebooks will take over the market some day, but not any time soon. After all, TV did not erase radio, and TV has pictures. (Yeah, I know. You don't hear any radio versions of CSI or Masterpiece Theatre, which just means each has found its purpose in life.)

Good analogy, and one which is obvious, once it's pointed out, Holmes.