To Finish or Not to Finish?

[neilmarr]

You're right, of course, Dennis. Patience can pay off big time.

Most folks, though, need to become involved very early in story and/or characters and/or style or a book's a no-finisher. Consider, for instance, how Lord of the Rings was treated in cinema (a not entirely unsuccessful medium) to set and maintain pace for a mass audience.

I'm by no means criticising your admirable approach (in fact, I envy it), just pointing out that patience is a rare virtue today, even among those who practice the leisurely art of reading words on a page.

And I must confess that I do have infinite patience with books of an earlier era with fewer entertainment options to distract and whose authors did not have to measure up to today's keen competition for our snatched leisure time.

Even now, there are happy exceptions to the on-your-marks-get-set-go big sellers that move at a gentler pace. They win literary prizes and earn rave reviews. They also tend to have smaller readerships, though.

Cheers and happy reading. Neil

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Many years ago, I was given a copy of J.R.R. Tolkien's "Lord of the rings" trilogy by an English teacher. .....

I had to push myself through aboyut the first 100 pages before the work kicked in. After that, I read the trilogy in a weekend, and have re-read it an average of one a year since.

Years later, I encountered E. R. Eddison's _The Worm Ouroboros_, in a .... I bounced off, till I learned to relax and let the book read itself to me, rather than actively read it myself. ....

If I'd followed your dictum, I'd have passed on both of these, for not grabbing me from the first few pages.
...
______
Dennis

Which is why I do my best to give any book a few chapters and may even come back to it for a second try at some point. You've got me thinking about Eddison's Worm again, I got about halfway through that one decades ago, maybe time for another shot.

Oh and I just found it here at MR:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11332

[neilmarr]

Just downloaded The Worm -- kindly offered here by Dr. Drib. With your words in mind, Dennis and Kenny, I'm more than happy to give it a fair crack o' the whip over bedtime hours. Thanks and cheers. Neil

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Ea

You just inspired me to try The Worm Ouroboros.

I agree with you. Some books don't give away their riches without a little effort on the reader's part, espcially if it's a type of prose that one is not used to.

Re The Worm Ouroboros, a bit of patience is required. One issue is that Eddison resorts to a clumsy framing device. Lessingham, the initial narrator, is transported astrally to Mercury in company of a Martlet who introduces him to the setting and the characters. But Lessingham is a "fly on the wall", invisible to the inhabitants of Mercury and unable to affect actions. He's soon enough forgotten, and we are plunged into the titanic conflict between Demonland, led by the lords Juss, Spitfire, Brandich Daha and Goldry Bluzco, against the forces of Witchland led by the evil sorcerer king Gorice XII.

As mentioned, Eddison wrote Elizabethan prose, like this exchange between Gorice and his liege-man, Lord Gro:

"The King rose from his chair and walked towards Gro, slowly. He was exceeding tall, and lean as a starved cormorant. Laying his hands upon the shoulders of Gro, and bending his face to Gro's, "Art not afeared," he asked, "to abide me in this chamber, at the close of day? Or hast not thought on't, and on these instruments thou seest, their use and purpose, and the ancient use of this chamber?"

Gro blenched never a whit, but stoutly said, "I am not afeared, O my Lord the King, but rather rejoiced I at your summons. For it jumpeth with mine own designs, when I took counsel secretly in my heart after the woes that the Fates fulfilled for Witchland in the Foliot Isles. For in that day, O King, when I beheld the light of Witchland darkened and her might abated in the fall of King Gorice XI. of glorious memory, I thought on you, Lord, the twelfth Gorice raised up King in Carcë; and there was present to my mind the word of the soothsayer of old, where he singeth:

Ten, eleven, tweif I see
In sequent varietie
Of puissaunce and maistrye
With swerd, sinwes, and grammarie.
In the holde of Carcë
Lordinge it royally.

And being minded that he singleth out you, the twelfth, as potent in grammarie, all my care was that these Demons should be detained within reach of your spells until we should have time to win home to you and to apprise you of their farings, that so you might put forth your power and destroy them by art magic or ever they come safe again to many-mountained Demonland."

This is not for everyone. I'm sensitive to language and find it lovely, but I don't pretend to be representative.
_______
Dennis

[Tattncat]

I was taught that any book you read has something to teach you even if only how not to behave. For that reason I read with very little exception I read nearly every book I start. I am a little picky about what Istart.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Re The Worm Ouroboros, a bit of patience is required. One issue is that Eddison resorts to a clumsy framing device. Lessingham, the initial narrator, is transported astrally to Mercury in company of a Martlet who introduces him to the setting and the characters. But Lessingham is a "fly on the wall", invisible to the inhabitants of Mercury and unable to affect actions. He's soon enough forgotten, and we are plunged into the titanic conflict between Demonland, led by the lords Juss, Spitfire, Brandich Daha and Goldry Bluzco, against the forces of Witchland led by the evil sorcerer king Gorice XII.

[....]

This is not for everyone. I'm sensitive to language and find it lovely, but I don't pretend to be representative.
_______
Dennis

I'm not so worried about it. It's a question of not reading too fast, and to get used to a different style. I've been trying to teach myself a bit of Old Norse lately through reading the Poetic Edda - when you already know the stories, it's quite amazing how much you can pick up (at least when you're Scandinavian - Old English is close to gibberish to me )

[neilmarr]

***Old English is close to gibberish to me***

That I can just about cope with, Ea. It's new English that baffles the heck out of me. Hoots. Neil

[Ea]

Originally Posted by neilmarr

***Old English is close to gibberish to me***

That I can just about cope with, Ea. It's new English that baffles the heck out of me. Hoots. Neil

LOL

Neil, with your profession, I can understand why aren't so patient with books read for pleasure - and then I think one's taste develop over time. I've recently tried to read books I really liked in my early twenties - and today (I'm 37) I can only say, what was I thinking?! Flat language, clichéed characterisation, cringe-inducing dialogue, etc.

[BenG]

If the book is really bad I'll sometimes stop reading, though I usually read much more than just one chapter. If it's just challenging to read, I'll try to finish it.

[neilmarr]

Funny you should mention that, Ea. When I was a teenager, I read over and over *Earth Abides*. Thought it was terrific ('keen' was the in-word for good in the UK at the time). When I mentioned here at MR that I'd love to read it again to see if it had the same impact, one of our pals sent me an ebook copy. Stayed awake all night to read it. Coming up half a century after the first time, it still gripped me from start to finish. Just so perfectly rounded and satisfying. Although it broke new ground in 1949, *Earth Abides* must be one of the most underrated SF pieces of all time. Cheers. Neil

[DMcCunney]

Since a couple of people seem to have been inspired by my comments to try Eddison's _The Worm Ouroborous_, I uploaded a copy I've been fiddling with. The existing MR version by Dr. Drib is for the Sony Reader. This one is in MobiPocket, and includes the illustrations from the original book publication.

The source text and illustrations I used were courtesy of the Internet Sacred Text Archive,. and are available here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ring/two/index.htm

I followed the placement in my Ballantine PB edition when creating the Mobi file.

My version is here:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...006#post634006

Enjoy.
______
Dennis

[Ea]

Originally Posted by neilmarr

Funny you should mention that, Ea. When I was a teenager, I read over and over *Earth Abides*. Thought it was terrific ('keen' was the in-word for good in the UK at the time). When I mentioned here at MR that I'd love to read it again to see if it had the same impact, one of our pals sent me an ebook copy. Stayed awake all night to read it. Coming up half a century after the first time, it still gripped me from start to finish. Just so perfectly rounded and satisfying. Although it broke new ground in 1949, *Earth Abides* must be one of the most underrated SF pieces of all time. Cheers. Neil

What a wonderful experience
It reminds me... The first English language book I read was E. M. Forster's "Maurice" when I was 16 (really wanted to read it and couldn't get in Danish so I was motivated). Really "heavy" language for a 16-year old Dane. Then I found a short story collection by Forster (The Life to Come) and tried to read that as well. It went completely over my head. I read it again about ten years later, and suddenly it made sense. I believe we have to "grow into" some books. That's why I'm keeping Thomas Mann on my bookshelf - I think I need to grow up a bit more, yet.

In an essey collection of Robertson Davies, "The Merry Heart", there is a nice essay on reading for pleasure; "A Rake at Reading".

[Ea]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Since a couple of people seem to have been inspired by my comments to try Eddison's _The Worm Ouroborous_, I uploaded a copy I've been fiddling with. The existing MR version by Dr. Drib is for the Sony Reader. This one is in MobiPocket, and includes the illustrations from the original book publication.

Thank you! I found a version at a place called sacred-texts.org, but it was only txt. I would definitely like an illustrated edition

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Since a couple of people seem to have been inspired by my comments to try Eddison's _The Worm Ouroborous_, I uploaded a copy I've been fiddling with. The existing MR version by Dr. Drib is for the Sony Reader. This one is in MobiPocket, and includes the illustrations from the original book publication.

The source text and illustrations I used were courtesy of the Internet Sacred Text Archive,. and are available here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ring/two/index.htm

I followed the placement in my Ballantine PB edition when creating the Mobi file.

My version is here:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...006#post634006

Enjoy.
______
Dennis

Hey Thanks Dennis!

BTW I did a conversion of the LRF to both epub and mobi for my Readers...

But glad to have yours as well!

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Ea

I'm not so worried about it. It's a question of not reading too fast, and to get used to a different style. I've been trying to teach myself a bit of Old Norse lately through reading the Poetic Edda - when you already know the stories, it's quite amazing how much you can pick up (at least when you're Scandinavian - Old English is close to gibberish to me )

That's fascinating. There are enough similarities between modern Danish and old Norse that you can get some sense of it?

I can somewhat make my way through old English, but it will be limited, and a glossary will be advisable. The structure of teh language will be similar, but the vocabulary will not.
______
Dennis