International Kindle - it shipped!

[Ea]

I came across some more info on VAT etc. in this post by waingateman:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=12

Having now purchased 10 books for my 2 x Kindle 2 International whilst in UK and France, this appears to be the way it works.

EU countries get charged US price plus $1.99 wireless charge plus 15% VAT (amazon US do not have to charge different VAT rates for each EU country they can register in one EU country typically one with lowest VAT rate and just charge that).

It would appear that you can then wirelessly download each book multiple time (don't know whether there is a limit but I have download 1 book 5 times to try this out) for the $1.99 plus VAT charge.

So delivery is not free, including if you download to your computer as amazon US use your browsers country detection to check if you are in the country you say you are.

I've also been to Germany (I Live on the French, German, Switzerland border) and get the same pricing as France/UK

I have tried using a US address in My Kindle, which allows me to see the US pricing but when you come to buy it does not allow you to complete the transaction as the browser shows a different country - unless someone knows how to fool this we will all be charged the $1.99 charge whether we use wireless delivery or computer download.

[neilmarr]

Amazon only mentions 'VAT' in relation to UK sales. It doesn't even attempt to justify the increased cover prices for other non-US countries (though we can maybe assume some high server fees in some parts of the world). Sorry if my numbers are a couple of points out, Grumpy (I'm not in the UK), but the principle remains: Amazon doesn't seem to be able to justify this increase on VAT collection only. As for the difference between 'purchase' and 'licence': Surely it would have been blatant theft for Amazon to have withdrawn books had they been straight 'purchases'. It would be like a high street bookseller breaking into your house and stealing paperbacks from your shelves. Cheers. Neil

[neilmarr]

Sorry, Ea, our messages crossed in the post. Does your copied message then mean that users outside the US are charged $1.99 on top of the cover price loading of $2.00, making a title outside the US about $4.00 (perhaps 40%) more expensive? If so, I think those considering Kindle international might do well to think twice. Neil

[Ea]

Originally Posted by neilmarr

Sorry, Ea, our messages crossed in the post. Does your copied message then mean that users outside the US are charged $1.99 on top of the cover price loading of $2.00, making a title outside the US about $4.00 (perhaps 40%) more expensive? If so, I think those considering Kindle international might do well to think twice. Neil

Sounds like it does for additional downloads, not the first one. I get the impression that waingateman has tested this in different countries, and according to Amazon you do pay an additional charge if you download in another country than where your Kindle is registered - this might be the case here.

Hopefully waingateman notices this and comments

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Me too. As you say, a welcome surprise.

While please to get back $20, I'd be very much more pleased if they'd realise that some people outside the US would like the option to buy books without paying $2+VAT for the wireless download

I'd be happy to pay a separate $2+VAT for wireless download if I decided the convenience was worth it. But I object to $2+VAT being added to the cost of every book in the UK store.

Isn't at least some of that additional $2 extra money that's going to UK publishers, who generally charge considerably more for books than US publishers?

[waingateman]

Hi
As far as I can ascertain there is not a cover price loading of $2 in EU countries it is a wireless delivery charge of $1.99.

ie every Kindle book price has the following ' includes VAT & international wireless delivery via Amazon Whispernet'

I think whether Amazon treats it as a purchase of good or service is a red herring as regards to VAT as UK VAT site states 'any sales of standard-rated goods or services that take place on or after 1 December 2008 providers should charge VAT at the new rate of 15%' and unfortunately unlike physical books ebooks are VAT rated in the UK (as well as the rest of EU).

So even a $0 Kindle book in US is charged at $2.30 in EU which is $1.99 international wireless delivery via Amazon Whispernet plus 15% VAT.

As stated before it appears that the $1.99 plus VAT wireless delivery charge is for multiple deliveries (don't know what the limit if any is) whilst a US owner gets charge $1.99 per wireless delivery if traveling oversea.

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[pdurrant]

I rather doubt it. Many of the books in the UK store are actually from US publishers who have world rights. I can't see Amazon paying them more for a UK sale rather than a US sale.

And the $2 is suspiciously close to the $1.99 Americans are going to be charged for downloading via whispernet when abroad.

It seems that (from what waingateman was quoted as saying) that for our $2+extra we get unlimited downloads across whispernet. But I'd still rather pay it as a separate fee.

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Isn't at least some of that additional $2 extra money that's going to UK publishers, who generally charge considerably more for books than US publishers?

[pdurrant]

Thanks for the follow-up.

Originally Posted by waingateman

As stated before it appears that the $1.99 plus VAT wireless delivery charge is for multiple deliveries (don't know what the limit if any is) whilst a US owner gets charge $1.99 per wireless delivery if traveling oversea.

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[rwe]

I'm not worried about my books. I de-DRM everything as soon as I buy it, so I can use it for whatever I want. This is a good case in point - if I hadn't done so, the Kindle would not have been half as possibly useful as it may be.[/QUOTE]

like probably more people, i have now a collection of books bought at different stores, much of the discussions on readers now, but actually the value of my books is higher then the cost of a reader.

i have seen some threads on de-drm for adobe, but no mention related to the kindle format

does anyone know if their format has been de=drm'ed??

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by rwe

i have seen some threads on de-drm for adobe, but no mention related to the kindle format

does anyone know if their format has been de=drm'ed??

Their regular AZW (.azw) books can be unDRM'd just like Mobi books. Their Topaz (.azw1, .azw2, .tpz) books can not be unDRM'd.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I rather doubt it. Many of the books in the UK store are actually from US publishers who have world rights. I can't see Amazon paying them more for a UK sale rather than a US sale.

And the $2 is suspiciously close to the $1.99 Americans are going to be charged for downloading via whispernet when abroad.

It seems that (from what waingateman was quoted as saying) that for our $2+extra we get unlimited downloads across whispernet. But I'd still rather pay it as a separate fee.

OK, I see. I just thought that since they had been negotiating with UK pubs, who charge more, that that would explain the price difference. If it's to pay for the Whispernet dl then yeah, it'd be nice if that was an optional charge only if you use that feature.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

OK, I see. I just thought that since they had been negotiating with UK pubs, who charge more, that that would explain the price difference. If it's to pay for the Whispernet dl then yeah, it'd be nice if that was an optional charge only if you use that feature.

Yes, I'd rather just pay the download charge if I actually used the Whispernet - but who can tell how much the agreement with AT&T costs Amazon in comparison to Sprint. There might some basic charges that needs to be covered just for having the network.

There's also a $0.99 charge per MB for conversion downloads. (as far as I remember)

[Jonas777]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Their regular AZW (.azw) books can be unDRM'd just like Mobi books. Their Topaz (.azw1, .azw2, .tpz) books can not be unDRM'd.

Is it possible to see which kind it is before buying a book?

[Jonas777]

Originally Posted by Ea

There's also a $0.99 charge per MB for conversion downloads. (as far as I remember)

Correct, it is $0.99 charge per MB and mail. Ie send two mail each with 400KB and you pay $1.98. But send one mail with two attachments totalling 800KB you only pay $0.99.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by Jonas777

... But send one mail with two attachments totalling 800KB you only pay $0.99.

Aha! I thought they just added it up.