Kindle Geographic Restrictions On US Website - Against US Buyers - Page 6

lordvetinari2 · 10-14-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

Why can I buy just about all Pratchett books from booksonboard? The author can't be the problem here, and actually the publisher might be the same for the kindle and the mobipocket version...so Amazon has to somehow be the culprit...but why???

Actually, I think Amazon is not the problem here. I have checked the three ebook retailers listed at the Sony UK website, and the results are similar.
Neither Waterstones UK nor WHSmith UK carry Pratchett books at all. Borders UK, however, does carry 2 of his latest books (Wintersmith and Making Money) in ePub and 3 more in PDF. As usual, they are more expensive than their pbooks counterparts, but they look like the British original editions.
Please note that Booksonboard only carries the American editions. I do not know about you, but I prefer to read a Brit author the British way. Anyway, the Pratchett books at Booksonboard are a complete rip-off. For instance, Unseen Academicals is £17.42 there, but £9.49 in Amazon as a pbook.

Personally, what I do is buy the pbook, and at the same time get a Darknet version of the ebook. Also, I have just bought an Opticbook scanner, so I can digitalise those of my books not available in the Darknet. I know all this is illegal in certain jurisdictions, but they can put me in prison for all I care. It's still legit in my book.

lordvetinari2 · 10-14-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

[Random House UK] does sell some/most? of his ebooks on their rBooks.co.uk site.

And again, ebooks at Random House UK are more expensive than pbooks in Amazon. I am sorry, but that does not make any sense.

Also, I can only buy books from Random House UK if I live in the UK. Funnily enough, I cannot buy the UK books from Spain even though it is the same publisher over here (Random House Mondadori).

CommanderROR · 10-14-2009, 05:21 PM

I use the american Booksonboard website...don't really care about american or british edition, mostly it's just a different cover which does not really bother me in an ebook...^^
As long as the text is pure Pratchett I don't really care about anything...

lordvetinari2 · 10-14-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

As long as the text is pure Pratchett I don't really care about anything...

Ah, I thought that the American editions would have the Brit idioms replaced or something. At least, I know it to be the case with other Brit authors.

DaleDe · 10-14-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

Maybe I'm stupid, but I still don't get it...

Why does something digital have geo-restriction when it's physical counterpart has none? And why does the same book have geo-restrictions as a Kindle title but none as a Cybook/Sony/random mobipocket device title? Why can I buy just about all Pratchett books from booksonboard? The author can't be the problem here, and actually the publisher might be the same for the kindle and the mobipocket version...so Amazon has to somehow be the culprit...but why???

I smell a fish, but although I spent most of the day pulling up the floorboards I have been unable to find it...

It is a loophole in the law. Physical books are deemed to be sold in the place they are stored. Thus Amazon is in the USA and books are in the USA so when you buy one you are buying in the USA and then shipping it. They are geographically restricted but to a USA version. eBooks are not shipped and the definition of a purchase is that it is located in the country you live it, not the country of the source eBook. Therein lies the difference. I can't defend it but I know where the fish are.

Dale

igorsk · 10-14-2009, 05:45 PM

Is this "digital sale takes place in the buyer's country" principle actually specified anywhere? In my opinion the sale takes place in the seller's country, and then the goods are delivered to the customer over the internet. Same as with physical goods.

tompe · 10-14-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

It is a loophole in the law. Physical books are deemed to be sold in the place they are stored. Thus Amazon is in the USA and books are in the USA so when you buy one you are buying in the USA and then shipping it. They are geographically restricted but to a USA version. eBooks are not shipped and the definition of a purchase is that it is located in the country you live it, not the country of the source eBook. Therein lies the difference. I can't defend it but I know where the fish are.

The consequences are absurd and will for non-US and non-UK persons lead to a situation that is significantly worse than buying paper books. When I buy and English language book I make an informed decision about buying the US or the UK edition. It is absurd that I cannot continue to do that. The editions are not the same and there is reasons to have one of them and sometimes you want to have both.

DaleDe · 10-14-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

Is this "digital sale takes place in the buyer's country" principle actually specified anywhere? In my opinion the sale takes place in the seller's country, and then the goods are delivered to the customer over the internet. Same as with physical goods.

Perhaps you can convince Amazon but then the rules, in Europe at least, are not in your favor and they want to tax it since you live there. These are publisher restrictions and part of the contract between the author and the publisher and the dealer is stuck. When the dealers in GB complained this is what came out of the deal. I do not know where it is is written down but the publishers have a lot of clout with the dealers in enforcing this.

Dale

krischik · 10-15-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striking Claw

The comparison with video games or DVDs also doesn't really work, because while you may need different hardware most online shops will sell you the software and the hardware you need regardless of your country of origin.

And sell you the "region free DVD player" on top. I got one of those - they appeared almost instantaneously after DVD was introduced.

Martin

krischik · 10-15-2009, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

or the older versions had no restrictions in the contract because no one expected them to be ebooks. Newer books probably include an ebook/electronic clause/section.

More likely the exclusive deal has expired on older books.

Martin

krischik · 10-15-2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

Why does something digital have geo-restriction when it's physical counterpart has none?

AFAIK pBooks are restricted as well. Only with pBooks it makes no difference since the POS (Point of Sale) is where the distributor puts them into to box to be shipped to the customer.

braver · 10-15-2009, 03:27 AM

So what seems to be the problem here? If you move to UK, and change your address for the Kindle to UK, you now can buy the UK book even while back in the US, using the US Kindle. Just as if you were visiting the UK and buying a paperback there, bringing it back with you. The Amazon equivalent of the move to the UK and back is changing your Kindle country from US to UK and back.

kacir · 10-15-2009, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

It is a loophole in the law. Physical books are deemed to be sold in the place they are stored. Thus Amazon is in the USA and books are in the USA so when you buy one you are buying in the USA and then shipping it. They are geographically restricted but to a USA version. eBooks are not shipped and the definition of a purchase is that it is located in the country you live it, not the country of the source eBook.

I hope somebody si going to recognize a big business opportunity here and starts selling old 64 or 128MB SD cards loaded with books.
You select the book, he purchases it for you, puts it on an SD card in his country and ships the card physically. Just like he would ship paper books.
EDIT:
When you accumulate 10 cards, you ship them back, declared value $5, for "recycling", so the next 10 purchases you do not have to pay for physical card.

kennyc · 10-15-2009, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kacir

I hope somebody si going to recognize a big business opportunity here and starts selling old 64 or 128MB SD cards loaded with books.
You select the book, he purchases it for you, puts it on an SD card in his country and ships the card physically. Just like he would ship paper books.
EDIT:
When you accumulate 10 cards, you ship them back, declared value $5, for "recycling", so the next 10 purchases you do not have to pay for physical card.

Go for it!!

DawnFalcon · 10-15-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by braver

So what seems to be the problem here? If you move to UK, and change your address for the Kindle to UK, you now can buy the UK book even while back in the US, using the US Kindle. Just as if you were visiting the UK and buying a paperback there, bringing it back with you. The Amazon equivalent of the move to the UK and back is changing your Kindle country from US to UK and back.

Nope. When you first set your location, that's where that Kindle is based. So sorry if you move.

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10-14-2009, 05:21 PM	#78
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	I use the american Booksonboard website...don't really care about american or british edition, mostly it's just a different cover which does not really bother me in an ebook...^^ As long as the text is pure Pratchett I don't really care about anything...

10-14-2009, 05:45 PM	#81
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	Is this "digital sale takes place in the buyer's country" principle actually specified anywhere? In my opinion the sale takes place in the seller's country, and then the goods are delivered to the customer over the internet. Same as with physical goods.

10-15-2009, 03:27 AM	#87
braver Enthusiast Posts: 49 Karma: 86 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle DX	So what seems to be the problem here? If you move to UK, and change your address for the Kindle to UK, you now can buy the UK book even while back in the US, using the US Kindle. Just as if you were visiting the UK and buying a paperback there, bringing it back with you. The Amazon equivalent of the move to the UK and back is changing your Kindle country from US to UK and back.