Delayed firmware update due to legal dispute?

[CyGuy]

Couldn't care less about ePub support, only need MOBI support.
Couldn't care less about DRM, I remove it immediately.
Just need MOBI support with FOLDER VIEW!!!

[Prospect]

Originally Posted by Gaurnim

Your suggestion makes sense.
I can totally picture Amazon going to court over this as, depending on the exact wording, they could choose an interpretation of the contract where having two different firmwares with different DRM systems on the samed device would not be permitted. After that it's a lawyer battle and Amazon clearly has the bigger guns in this department.

But I think Bookeen should be able to say that the firmware release has been delayed due to legal concerns, even if they can't give details.

What they can say and what they can not say would depend on the non-disclosure language in the agreement. Regardless of the agreement it would probably not be advantageous for Bookeen to communicate that they are in a legal dispute with Amazon, which might turn customers and investors away. I can not recollect that Bookeen has given any reasons for the delay except from general remarks regarding “hoping” to able to deliver son and that they are “working” on it.

[EowynCarter]

- no justification (on most devices)

The opus do justify. (Hyphenation on the other hand...). pocketbook can justify too. Sony reader is the only one who don't do justify i can think of. Don't blame sony's stupidity on ePub

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by Prospect

What they can say and what they can not say would depend on the non-disclosure language in the agreement. Regardless of the agreement it would probably not be advantageous for Bookeen to communicate that they are in a legal dispute with Amazon, which might turn customers and investors away. I can not recollect that Bookeen has given any reasons for the delay except from general remarks regarding “hoping” to able to deliver son and that they are “working” on it.

As in any democratic country in the world there is a register of currently active lawsuites I assume this information is nowhere near secret in France. In most developed countries it is even required that during a due diligence or similar process a potential investor is actively informed of any pending lawsuits.

So if Bookeen is keeping legal trouble secret it is most definitely not because of investors.

How customers could be turned away I can't quite figure out. I fail to see how a lawsuit won or lost could impact me as a customer. They might not be able to release any more updates for the mobipocket version - but that's no change from now, so no real threat there...

[Gaurnim]

Originally Posted by Snuffi

How customers could be turned away I can't quite figure out. I fail to see how a lawsuit won or lost could impact me as a customer. They might not be able to release any more updates for the mobipocket version - but that's no change from now, so no real threat there...

If there is a legal dispute which might cause the company to go bankrupt, it could influence your decision.
Not having updates might not be such a problem, but not having support and warranty can be a big pain.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by Gaurnim

Your suggestion makes sense.
I can totally picture Amazon going to court over this as, depending on the exact wording, they could choose an interpretation of the contract where having two different firmwares with different DRM systems on the samed device would not be permitted. After that it's a lawyer battle and Amazon clearly has the bigger guns in this department.

But I think Bookeen should be able to say that the firmware release has been delayed due to legal concerns, even if they can't give details.

In Germany, weltbild.de is selling the .epub version.
If there'd actually be a legal dispute, I guess this wouldn't be possible.
Cybook Opus with .epub is available.
So, the only logical scenario would be, stopping the .prc version. But this one still can be bought.
I guess, the explanation is way easier: Bookeen doesn't sell eBooks, only readers. So, what would they gain by offering the Gen3 .epub firmware update? Not a single unit to sell for them. And so their focus clearly will be on the "new business", i. e. Opus and partners like weltbild.de for the .epub version.

[EowynCarter]

Bookeen doesn't sell eBooks, only readers. So, what would they gain by offering the Gen3 .epub firmware update?

Customer happiness ? And anyway, it will be the SAME firmware the the opus. That totally kills your reasoning, sorry.

[mgmueller]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Customer happiness ? And anyway, it will be the SAME firmware the the opus. That totally kills your reasoning, sorry.

Isn't the opposite's the case? Question to them will be: Will some existing Gen3 users purchase an Opus? Or would they stick to their Gen3 (without any revenue for Bookeen) when making the update available? New business always will beat customer satisfaction. Especially in a market that competitive. Why upgrade "old" units when you might be able to sell new ones?

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

Isn't the opposite's the case? Question to them will be: Will some existing Gen3 users purchase an Opus? Or would they stick to their Gen3 (without any revenue for Bookeen) when making the update available? New business always will beat customer satisfaction. Especially in a market that competitive. Why upgrade "old" units when you might be able to sell new ones?

Well, i did bought an opus, even though I own a gen3. I wanted someting smaller, the opus have twice my gen3's power. And way more ergonomic than gen3. Though it lacks music plying though.
Plus, one might get a replacement sonner if he needs ePub, but is more likley to get a reader from an other brand.

New business always will beat customer satisfaction

Tech stuff need to be changed sometimes. Someone happy will eventually buy the same brand again, someone unhappy won't.

[ProfJulie]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Customer happiness ? And anyway, it will be the SAME firmware the the opus. That totally kills your reasoning, sorry.

I don't know what motivates Bookeen, but it is clearly NOT customer happiness or else they would do more to get the firmware updated and they would not leave us in the lurch with absolutely no meaningful information like they have.

The topic of this thread is purely speculative and any attempt to explain the difficulties of a lawsuit in this regard is nothing more than conjecture. We_don't_know_why_Bookeen has failed to produce a firmware update for the Cybook and they obviously are not interested in sharing their reasons with us.

Bookeen has lost all credibility with me, and at this point I'll be surprised and amazed if they manage to produce any kind of worthwhile update for the Cybook.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

In Germany, weltbild.de is selling the .epub version.
If there'd actually be a legal dispute, I guess this wouldn't be possible.
Cybook Opus with .epub is available.

I am not a fan of the legal dispute theory, but if there is a legal dispute the issue is whether Bookeen can provide "separate but equal" firmwares for MOBI and Adobe. Irex and Jinke say no, and so they provide the old MOBI DRM firmware but all new firmware is (or will be) Adobe DRM only. Bookeen says yes, but they have not actually delivered an updated MOBI firmware that is equivalent to an Adobe firmware yet.

I'm not sure dropping MOBI is entirely a legal issue for the other vendors, a single firmware supporting two DRM formats increases total sales more and probably requires less technical support than separate firmwares for each DRM scheme. The separate but equal approach may not be worth doing technically or financially, even if Amazon allows it. Note that both iRex and Jinke (for Astak in the US market) are willing to provide both Adobe and eReader DRM in a single firmware. I'm sure they would add MOBI if they could in a single firmware.

[Prospect]

Originally Posted by Snuffi

As in any democratic country in the world there is a register of currently active lawsuites I assume this information is nowhere near secret in France. In most developed countries it is even required that during a due diligence or similar process a potential investor is actively informed of any pending lawsuits..

... most legal disputes are resolved before they reach the courthouse and professional parties often agree to use arbitration to settle disputes without public disclosure... You are of course right regarding disclosure requirements in a due diligence process.

[Prospect]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Customer happiness ? And anyway, it will be the SAME firmware the the opus. That totally kills your reasoning, sorry.

Well it might be that Amazon is of the opinion that Bookeen has committed to not provide epub support to a device which has been delivered with mobi-support earlier or to support mobipocket to a device that was originally shipped with support for Adobe DRM

As indicated in the first post this is purely a speculation but in my twisted head it offers an explanation to some of Bookeens strange behaviour. And of course, if it is the case it would be important for Amazon (or Mobipocket) to keep a lid on it.

Another question would be if such agreement would be legal in view of the limitations to contract freedom set out in European competition law.

[K-Thom]

Well it might be that Amazon is of the opinion that Bookeen has committed to not provide epub support to a device which has been delivered with mobi-support earlier or to support mobipocket to a device that was originally shipped with support for Adobe DRM

Alllright, may be true. So Bookeen could/should just stick to version 1.5 (prc) for Gen3 and version 2.0 (ePub) for the Opus.

Still, neither 1.5. nor 2.0 hitting the shores, for any of their devices, all (possible) contractual commitments aside.

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by Gaurnim

If there is a legal dispute which might cause the company to go bankrupt, it could influence your decision.
Not having updates might not be such a problem, but not having support and warranty can be a big pain.

I agree, support would be an issue. It is, however, rather unlikely that Bookeen will go under entirely at the moment: they may have thought about doing a firmware with both mobi and ePub DRM but there never was one publicly available. All other cases where I might imagine Amazon having a valid case, they haven't spread it out to the public *yet*. So while it is possible for Amazon to sue them over something they will not be able to claim damages and the latter is what kills a company.

Aside from that the lack of communication, the fact that they continously don't meet their deadlines and can't even give you a new one now, half a year after the last one expired, is in my opnion more damaging than any lawsuit they could be faced with. With a lawsuit there is at least the possibility that they could win or at least not lose much. With that kind of attitude towards their customers and their serious problems with project management, I highly doubt that there will be a change for the better any time soon.
Even if I should ever get that mysterious firmware one day - by that time most features will be nothing special anymore, any other device will have had that for ages already. It will fail to bring the Cybook back on eye-level with the competition because competition has come and gone on ahead while Bookeen was still trying to get a few basic things done (mind you, I'm not talking about ePub - which is a nice gesture to give to us. But nobody asked them to put every tiny thing on hold just because they wanted to get ePub into the same firmware). After waiting for folder view since early 2008 I have pretty much given up hope that Bookeen will ever get on good terms with software development. They will, eventually, release that firmware but that will basically be the end of it. If there should be any major bugs or features missing I doubt that I will live to see the next firmware update after that.