Barnes and Noble confirms COLOR e-book reader for Spring 2010 [INCORRECT]

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

nonono.......I disagree.

I know you do... I started my post out saying so.

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

The book readers are an individual thing. I don't want a book to read to the kids, I want the kids to read the books! Animation is okay for tv, but books are meant to be read, not watched.

My oldest son Derrick learned his alphabet and to read very early and it was probably 90% due to a software program we got him called "Micky's ABC's". Basically he hit a key, Mickey would display the letter, say it, walk to something in his house that started with the letter and say the word. It was fantastic and really taught him.

Yes, of course, we also sat with him and read to him and had him read to us.

Um... this is not an all or nothing thing. As much as we would like to, parents can't spend 100% of their time with their kids.

BOb

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by zacheryjensen

I'm surprised to see this news posted here today since plastic logic has denied the color e reader rumor.

Well, SOME of us realized this was a mistake.

Anyway, the thread pre-dated the denial by many hours.

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Again. I am not saying little ones should not be exposed to tech advances. Please re-read my post on smartboards.
I totally support teaching them about computers at an early age.

I am saying they do not need color, animated, talking ebook readers to learn to read.

You know whats wrong with education today? Many things.

But its not a lack of ebook readers.

you still do not see the way you are contradicting yourself...let me expand what I assumed is obvious here.

People today are finding it difficult to adapt to ereaders as their primary way of reading. That is for at least a couple primary reasons.

First the firmware on dedicated readers is very primitive. Much of the reader software is even primitive compared to the apps that run on a 10yr old PDA...this makes the devices a bit too rigid for us who grew up on p-books. If kids learn them NOW they will not only grow with the devices, they will implement improvements and changes.

Second, people just do not understand how to use dedicated readers because we imprinted on using p-books to the point we can feel almost helpless when confronted with research on dedicated ereaders.

If kids begin using dedicated ereaders NOW, and of course books will still be needed, the kids will not suffer the shock of feeling lost at sea when confronted with a learning tool they have no idea how to use for more than something trivial as reading a novel. Exposure today means kids will imprint on not just p-books but reader devices as well. Where do you imagine that the next generation of device design and software will come from? From the same sort of people who grew up with a PC in their house and/or school 25-30yrs ago and ever since.

Sure reader displays do not need to be color, but why not if the tech exists? What reasonable argument is there which supports you saying they MUST still use p-books over ereading devices? Fear of change from your own comfort zone is the only answer that I can see motivating your comments.

What contained in your comment here:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

nonono.......I disagree. I think there is a huge difference between the smart board and the ebook readeer.

The smart board is designed to be seen, shared and enjoyed by the entire class.

The book readers are an individual thing. I don't want a book to read to the kids, I want the kids to read the books! Animation is okay for tv, but books are meant to be read, not watched.

Pronunciation is learned by sounding out words, and learning all the stupid english rules....its an ongoing process, and depends on interaction with a teacher, parent, etc.

Toddlers don't need a touch, color, interactive ebook reader. Thats dumbing them down.

What about reading, cannot be accomplished with an ereader device? In fact today's somewhat primitive devices would seem to be less advanced.

Kinda funny because your POV was the same wrt to the use of calculators and programmable calculators in schools...for me they taught me to program as well as check my arithmetic...two of my degrees are in mathematics another is in CS. And you know what? Had I not been exposed to them as a teen, I might not have my two degrees in mathematics and one in CS...

Again I am not sure you see the way you are contradicting your own position...

Almost two years ago I started a thread about exactly this topic...using ereading devices in schools and even today here you are saying that is a bad idea, paper is the way to go even if it puts kids at a learning disadvantage 10-15 yrs down the road when it will almost all be via electronic devices.

[zacheryjensen]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Kids like to touch gadgets and see them respond.... I think any toddler would love a touch color interactive ebook reader.

Just to add a little kindling to this flamefest, my 18 month old daughter loves to play with ABC Animals on my iPhone while I hold it. She slides the cards side to side until she sees and/or hears something she recognizes after we go through it all once together. She's learning letters and basic animal words with a fairly high tech gadget.

Granted, I wouldn't trust her not to break an iPhone but a suitably durable device doing the same thing would be a killer app for young children in schools. Unfortunately the reality is that K-12 is horribly underfunded everywhere (in the USA at least) and they are lucky to have one 10 year old computer in many classrooms. My inlaws are both teachers. One teaches 3rd graders and they still use those ancient tape players with the shared headphones and follow-along books as though that was modern teaching technology.

It's sad. If I'm ever rich someday my one and only philanthropy will be outfitting classrooms with practical but modern learning technology. And I assure you I would not be so foolishly conservative to think that paper is what makes kids want to read. My little girl whom I mentioned before also likes her regular books, and does the same sort of pointing-and-saying games with them. She doesn't care whether it's on paper or a screen, though I do think the touching is important if only because she seems to think touching a word is integral to reading it as that is what we do when we read to her.

I guess it's important not to underestimate kids and not to assume that the reasons you had for becoming interested in books apply to kids now. It's probably an argument in parallel to the one about the assumption that reading a book is inherently good for you. Sorry to say but it's not. In both cases, the content and purpose outweighs the fact that a "book" is involved, virtual or physical.

[zacheryjensen]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

... Almost two years ago I started a thread about exactly this topic...using ereading devices in schools and even today here you are saying that is a bad idea, paper is the way to go even if it puts kids at a learning disadvantage 10-15 yrs down the road when it will almost all be via electronic devices.

I'd like to add to your sentiments an often overlooked but extremely dire and important factor that negatively impacts thousands if not millions of learners every day. And that is, the materials are produces with assumptions about physical qualities that are usually aimed at the 20/20 readers without color blindness or learning disabilities such as dyslexia or dysgraphia. Electronic devices can adapt to the user of them. Paper can not. With proper software and hardware combinations you can give more children more chances with the same original learning materials.

Fonts can be adjusted, colors can be inverted for contrast or adjusted for color blindness. Read-aloud assistance can be enabled to help dyslexics catch mistakes. And during input, errors characterized by dysgraphia can trigger alerts and suggest breaks (for the uninitiated dysgraphia is an ailment with many causes but most often is enhanced by fatigue).

Frankly it's stupid to hide from technology that can improve lives and improve chances at a literate society. Books were vital because that was the pinnacle of literacy and the only practical mode of transporting large amounts of information. That is not the case anymore. It's not time yet, due to costs obviously, but in the next decade books will not be a primary part of any classrooms. The claims made that they somehow promote sharing is practically the opposite of true. Collaboration in a proper virtual environment, even a half-decent collaborative text editor or, *gasp* a co-op video game, is far richer and easier to manage than passing a book round-robin. And never mind the as-of-yet ineffective large group collaborations that could be far more easily managed with networked devices.

Ok. Rant/Addition over

[zacheryjensen]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Well, SOME of us realized this was a mistake.

Anyway, the thread pre-dated the denial by many hours.

Yes that was more or less what surprised me that nobody had made that comment even quite a while after the first denial.

Also I personally thought it quite obviously wrong when the statement was made in the first place but, I guess I probably did make a few assumptions based on my knowledge of Plastic Logic's intentions and I have been fairly interested in their plans, maybe more than most?

[punisher007]

Despite Plastic Logic denying it, if the color ereader would indeed be a plastic logic product, then it would be a new one since the guy says it's pocketbook sized.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by zacheryjensen

Yes that was more or less what surprised me that nobody had made that comment even quite a while after the first denial....

Heh, I'm not surprised. In a Perfect World, Engadget et al would've asked PL for confirmation before running the article -- or at least updated the article with the clarification -- but blogs are more interested in getting something out first than they are in being accurate.


And then there are people who Want To Believe, e.g.:

Originally Posted by punisher007

Despite Plastic Logic denying it, if the color ereader would indeed be a plastic logic product, then it would be a new one since the guy says it's pocketbook sized.

Dude. There is no color PL reader yet, the B&N guy was merely mistaken.

See what I mean?

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Okay, I know I'll get slammed for this.......but again, no. As a parent, I want a wall full of colorful books, not a color eink device. Its the texture, pictures, rifling thru the books which encourages the reading. Going thru a boxful of paper books is a different experience than going thru a few pages of an ebook reader, color or not.

I think I'm with you on this one.

Ebook readers for when they're ready to just absorb content. Books, with pages, for learning the process of reading.

A lot of kids are tactile learners; they need to trace the letters with their fingers (or a pen), need to touch the words on the page to realize that the images connect to the story they're absorbing.

And all kids need the freedom to be, well, kids, with their possessions--need to have books be something they can drag around, bang against tables and toys, and tear their favorite page out to put it over their bed. They need to be free to scribble over the face of the scary villain, or draw hearts and stars around the happily-ever-after scene. They need to think of books, and the content within them, as relevant to their lives, which means freedom to react in their own way--otherwise, it's just something they're supposed to acknowledge but not touch.

I suspect that eventually, kids will be given digital tablets instead of schoolbooks--but I think we're more than 10 years away from that, and maybe more than 25 years. The tablets need to be a lot more durable, and the programming a lot more useful and stable, before it can replace the versatility of a book next to a pencil and notepad.

And we'll still need picture books and fuzzy books for small children, and other books so they understand why those are related to the words-on-a-screen reading material. (Also, I don't want a generation of kids who can operate the new super iPodstravaganza, but don't know how to find an entry in a traditional encyclopedia because they've never had to learn how a paper index works.)

[zacheryjensen]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Dude. There is no color PL reader yet, the B&N guy was merely mistaken.

See what I mean?

It seems to be possible that BN could have a color ebook reader coming to market in the same timeframe though. It just won't be PL. See this as evidence (though I'm not saying this will be sold by BN, just an example of supposed market availability.)

[ThomasMc]

If they are smart, they will use it as a "loss leader", selling it at cost, to increase their eBook sales. Most likely, though, they will charge an arm and a leg, putting it out of reach for most people.

[geneven]

I have seen some really horrible pictures on my Kindle 2, certainly something needs to be improved. Color would help. There are issues with regard to color that aren't usually mentioned. The really revolutionary thing about the Kindle is the free Whispernet. It takes more information to convey color than black and white -- therefore, more bandwidth would be used. Therefore, it would cost Amazon more.

Another revolutionary thing about the Kindle is battery life--this is what really makes the difference in a reader -- you don't have to worry about charging it all the time. However, I wonder if someone just made a classy reader that wasn't as thin as the Kindle and had more battery in it, even if it increased the weight. Then e-ink wouldn't be so important -- I don't find that much eyestrain as people talk about on regular computers. I've been reading for many hours a day on computers for twenty years or so, with no problem.

And for color, just allow the local ereader to change the colors produced -- instead of greys, maybe blues. You would have color, but the color would come from your reader, not from the publisher of the book. You would have a similarly limited range of color, but you would specify the colors. Maybe that will be the next step.

Or maybe dual screens are coming. You would have an e-ink screen and a conventional screen for viewing pictures. I could go for that...

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by geneven

Another revolutionary thing about the Kindle is battery life--this is what really makes the difference in a reader -- you don't have to worry about charging it all the time. However, I wonder if someone just made a classy reader that wasn't as thin as the Kindle and had more battery in it, even if it increased the weight. Then e-ink wouldn't be so important -- I don't find that much eyestrain as people talk about on regular computers. I've been reading for many hours a day on computers for twenty years or so, with no problem.

..

One thing you forgot about E-Ink - It will allow you to read in bright sunlight (for outdoor reading). My iPaq was poor at best for reading outdoors.

[Hellmark]

Also, when you read on a PDA or other device like that, you tend to hold it closer than if you were with a computer, which boosts eyestrain. I use a computer for hours everyday too, for work, school, and pleasure, but it still bothers my eyes.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by geneven

The really revolutionary thing about the Kindle is the free Whispernet. It takes more information to convey color than black and white -- therefore, more bandwidth would be used. Therefore, it would cost Amazon more.

Not really. Adding color is just the matter of a few extra styles in the CSS and the markup. Also, I don't think color pics are that much bigger than gray scale. And, many of the pics might already be color the Kindle just doesn't display the color, it dithers it into gray scale.

BOb