Kindle International Edition: second thoughts

[Haesslich]

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2009/1...rnational.html

What I find a bit irksome is that the Kindle will be available in the Congo and Sri Lanka without wireless support... but, for some reason, Amazon won't release the Kindle up in Canada 'without wireless support' even though they see fit to do so in the freaking CONGO. It's almost as if Canada is somehow ranked below a Third World country so far as its desirability as a customer base goes...

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2009/1...rnational.html

What I find a bit irksome is that the Kindle will be available in the Congo and Sri Lanka without wireless support... but, for some reason, Amazon won't release the Kindle up in Canada 'without wireless support' even though they see fit to do so in the freaking CONGO. It's almost as if Canada is somehow ranked below a Third World country so far as its desirability as a customer base goes...

I think the reason are the publishers. There will be contracts for English language publishers covering Canada and Singapore which prevent Amazon from selling, but none for many other countries -- like Congo.

What I would really love, though, is a similar offer for the new Irex DRG 800!

[braver]

Well, if you see what Canada did on their side of the Niaga Falls -- casinos all around, vs. a National Park, however small, on the US side -- a comparison with Congo begins to make sense.

[Alfy]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2009/1...rnational.html

What I find a bit irksome is that the Kindle will be available in the Congo and Sri Lanka without wireless support... but, for some reason, Amazon won't release the Kindle up in Canada 'without wireless support' even though they see fit to do so in the freaking CONGO. It's almost as if Canada is somehow ranked below a Third World country so far as its desirability as a customer base goes...

Don't worry, Canada still rates higher than North Korea...

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's a legal technicality. When you buy a print book, the "point of sale" is deemed to be the bookstore. When you buy an eBook, the point of sale is the customer's PC. Hence, if the customer is in a country for which the US publisher does not have distribution rights, they can buy the print book (because that's legally being sold "in the USA"), but they can't buy the eBook.

I wonder... is it really so? Will US Kindle owners with an international edition be able to buy US-restricted ebooks when travelling abroad?

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Jellby

I wonder... is it really so? Will US Kindle owners with an international edition be able to buy US-restricted ebooks when travelling abroad?

From the description on the site it would seem so. The restriction to US is based on the account, not the current location of the device. If the purchase includes an electronic download then there is a roaming charge but no restriction of sale.

Dale

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

From the description on the site it would seem so. The restriction to US is based on the account, not the current location of the device. If the purchase includes an electronic download then there is a roaming charge but no restriction of sale.

If that is so, either the "excuse" of the point of sale being the purchaser's computer is false, or the Kindle can be used to circumvent geographic restrictions and should be illegal

Seriously, this shows again that geographic restrictions are plain stupid. They may be a consequence of the publishers' contracts, but obviously no one is really sure what they mean and how they should be implemented.

[Lemurion]

Actually, I think rights issues are at the root of the delay for Canada, and it has to do with the US/UK rights divide, which is much more complicated there than in most other countries. Most countries are wholly in one or the other territory, so Amazon just has to market for the appropriate territory.

Canada is different: some books are handled under UK rights and others under US rights. Generally this means that US books are distributed by US publishers, and UK books by UK publishers. The end result is that Canada needs a completely separate list of available books because it may not be immediately obvious which edition is licensed for Canada.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by Jellby

If that is so, either the "excuse" of the point of sale being the purchaser's computer is false, or the Kindle can be used to circumvent geographic restrictions and should be illegal

Seriously, this shows again that geographic restrictions are plain stupid. They may be a consequence of the publishers' contracts, but obviously no one is really sure what they mean and how they should be implemented.

From what I can tell, it's not specifically the location of the purchaser's computer, but the purchaser's credit card billing address that determines the place of sale when buying an ebook. This is often, but not always the same location as their computer.

An American could therefore buy a US-restricted book while currently outside the US because they haven't changed their card address.

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

I think the reason are the publishers. There will be contracts for English language publishers covering Canada and Singapore which prevent Amazon from selling, but none for many other countries -- like Congo.

What I would really love, though, is a similar offer for the new Irex DRG 800!

... and somehow Sony doesn't have an issue with Canadian publishers. MOBIPOCKET had no issues selling to Canada with most of their books, and they're owned by Amazon. This does not seem to be an argument which holds a lot of weight.

[DawnFalcon]

I strongly suspect it's because AT&T will shortly have a roaming agreement with one of the other major Canadian mobile phone telcos, and they're waiting on that.

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

I strongly suspect it's because AT&T will shortly have a roaming agreement with one of the other major Canadian mobile phone telcos, and they're waiting on that.

AT&T already have roaming agreements in canada.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if amazon are actually more advanced in discussions with a canadian carrier than others elsewhere and they are skipping this grey import stage that everyone else is getting and are simply going to launch the kindle properly in canada.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

From what I can tell, it's not specifically the location of the purchaser's computer, but the purchaser's credit card billing address that determines the place of sale when buying an ebook. This is often, but not always the same location as their computer.

Yes, that seems to be the case in practice, but I don't think that relates to any "law" about the point of sale. When trying to implement geographic restrictions in publishers' contracts, they implemented something else.

[tlrowley]

Originally Posted by Crowl

AT&T already have roaming agreements in canada.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if amazon are actually more advanced in discussions with a canadian carrier than others elsewhere and they are skipping this grey import stage that everyone else is getting and are simply going to launch the kindle properly in canada.

That's exactly the conversation that I had yesterday. If that is the case, it's a pity they couldn't have moved a bit faster. Certainly, Canada's inclusion in the list of unsupported countries is startling.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Yes, that seems to be the case in practice, but I don't think that relates to any "law" about the point of sale. When trying to implement geographic restrictions in publishers' contracts, they implemented something else.

I couldn't find any specific legal determinations one way or another: however, I've made enough online transactions in one country with a credit card from another that I am sure that it's the case in at least the majority of situations. The pre-existence of geographic restrictions means they have to use something: so card address it is.