How to get around corporate greed at Amazon?

[hal_9000]

Originally Posted by Mike L

In what sense is it a monopoly? Is someone forcing you to buy your reader from Amazon, as opposed to Sony or any of the others? And even if you did buy a Kindle, what law says you have to buy your books from the Kindle store?

(I suppose if a particular title was only available as a Kindle e-book, yes, that would be a monopoly. But it's always been the case that publishers have a monopoly on their own titles [subject to subsidiary rights and foreign sales]; that doesn't stop them from competing.)

I also agree with BWaldron that any anger should be directed at the publisher as much as at Amazon. To a large extent, it's the publisher who fixes the price.

But that doesn't make the publisher any more greedy than Amazon. I strongly suspect that the high prices of e-books compared to traditional books is a mixture of fear and ignorance on the publishers' part. Many of them still don't understand the nature of the e-book market, are uncertain about how it wil develop, and - above all - are scared of e-books stealing sales from their mainstream business.

no, true, nobody forced me to buy the amazon kindle. i "voluntarily" entered a monopoly, but that doesnt change the fact that its a monopoly. also, that's not the discussion as i understand it: it was in regard to the price of an ebook, not an edevice.

no, there is no law requiring i buy a ebook from amazon, but does there need to be such law for a monopoly? i'm no legal expert on monopoly, just a common consumer, but if there is only one entity that sells a particular product, how is that not a monopoly? could i, for example, open a website where i post downloadable software, such that the kindle can read epub files? no, why? because that would destroy amazon's file format monopoly. if you're right, and theres no monopoly, amazon would be perfectly fine with me doing that. sure, you're right, i could just buy the paperback or throw down another $300-400 for a sony ereader and commence to manually transfer ebooks into the device w/o whispernet, but then doesnt that defeat the purpose of the amazon edevice? wouldnt that be akin to not buying gas for my car anymore, and instead taking a bus (still gets me from point A to point B). i achieve the same result (get to read the book; get from point A to point B), but not the same means of achieving the result (via an amazon edevice; via car), which may or may not be critical to a consumer.

i'm not suggesting this is an amazon-only thing, its obviously a publisher thing too, but without amazon's exclusive file format, none of this would be an issue.

[emellaich]

Originally Posted by hal_9000

no, true, nobody forced me to buy the amazon kindle. i "voluntarily" entered a monopoly, but that doesnt change the fact that its a monopoly. also, that's not the discussion as i understand it: it was in regard to the price of an ebook, not an edevice.

OK, and I do understand your point. Furthermore, Amazon's restrictive stance on DRM for Mobi has reduced alternative sources. However, I would point out that Amazon's 'ties' between its readers and its books are not perfect. You can buy DRM free mobipocket from any source like Baen (webscriptions) or Fictionwise. If you use Calibre to format shift then you can buy from any source that is format free. Or download from gutenberg or here at mobileread.

However, as I said, I do understand. If you want to buy current bestsellers without breaking DRM you are locked into Amazon.

[=X=]

I know it's "in vouge" to bash Amazon whenever there is a chance but put blame where the blame belongs.

The real culprit for the high price is Penguin Classics, who is known for overpricing their eBooks. They do not give a penny discount to any eBook.
Here is the link to the book (link).

You'll notice their price is $16 for their eBooks which is also the same price as their paper book. If anything Amazon is not being greedy here but giving you a $6 discount at (38% discount). And if you go check other eBook retailers you notice Amazon is the cheapest.

=X=

[=X=]

Originally Posted by hal_9000

no, true, nobody forced me to buy the amazon kindle. i "voluntarily" entered a monopoly, but that doesnt change the fact that its a monopoly. also, that's not the discussion as i understand it: it was in regard to the price of an ebook, not an edevice.

no, there is no law requiring i buy a ebook from amazon, but does there need to be such law for a monopoly? i'm no legal expert on monopoly, just a common consumer, but if there is only one entity that sells a particular product, how is that not a monopoly? could i, for example, open a website where i post downloadable software, such that the kindle can read epub files? no, why? because that would destroy amazon's file format monopoly. if you're right, and theres no monopoly, amazon would be perfectly fine with me doing that. sure, you're right, i could just buy the paperback or throw down another $300-400 for a sony ereader and commence to manually transfer ebooks into the device w/o whispernet, but then doesnt that defeat the purpose of the amazon edevice? wouldnt that be akin to not buying gas for my car anymore, and instead taking a bus (still gets me from point A to point B). i achieve the same result (get to read the book; get from point A to point B), but not the same means of achieving the result (via an amazon edevice; via car), which may or may not be critical to a consumer.

i'm not suggesting this is an amazon-only thing, its obviously a publisher thing too, but without amazon's exclusive file format, none of this would be an issue.

While one can argue that Amazon is a monopoly or not the example you give is just way off. You are confusing market control vs. close systems. There is no argument that the Kindle is closed but that does not make it a monopoly. By your definition SONY's LRX would be a monopoly, so would PS3, XBox are also monopolies because you cant play an XBox game on a PS3.

Now if you think Amazon is a monopoly on the book market I think your quite mistaken. You can walk into any book and buy any paperback the Kindle has to offer.

=X=

[JeremyZ]

Do we know what amazon pays Penguin for the book? Everyone seems sure it is Peguin who is marking it up. But the fact that Penguin asks $16 doesn't mean that Amazon pays near $10 for it. ($9.99 is not in the ballpark for a 50+ year-old book)

My point was to get ideas on how to get this for what I consider a reasonable amount of money, and electronically, if possible. (not to get lectured on how the free market system works) The assumption that the corporate greed is at Amazon may be wrong (we don't know for sure) but if it is not Amazon, it is Penguin. From my experience working in the corporate world, I suspect the book prices are high to support the huge salaries of upper management. (whether it be Penguin or Amazon)

It seems that the only way to get it for less electronically is illegally. I'll look for it in the local library or used. It will be interesting to go back to a paper book after having the K2 for a couple weeks.

[hal_9000]

Originally Posted by =X=

While one can argue that Amazon is a monopoly or not the example you give is just way off. You are confusing market control vs. close systems. There is no argument that the Kindle is closed but that does not make it a monopoly. By your definition SONY's LRX would be a monopoly, so would PS3, XBox are also monopolies because you cant play an XBox game on a PS3.

Now if you think Amazon is a monopoly on the book market I think your quite mistaken. You can walk into any book and buy any paperback the Kindle has to offer.

=X=

you've made a false comparison between edevices and game consoles. since all game consoles have exclusive file formats, while many edevices have non-exclusive file formats, i dont think this is a valid comparison. In order to properly compare consoles and edevices, two gaming consoles would have to be able to play the same game format, which they can't. sure, xbox can only play xbox, the same way kindle can only read kindle files, but that ignores the rest of the market.

also, i never said amazon has a monopoly on the book market. to the contrary, i said buying paperbacks may be an inadequate substitute for the kindle format, depending on the consumer.

[JeremyZ]

Oh boy. My plane's been hijacked. Put away those box-cutters you guys!

[Mike L]

Emellaich: I agree -- and you expressed it better than I did.

If a company with high prices is greedy, then surely a cut-price merchant would be even greedier. After all, they are only motivated by a desire to sell more products and make more money.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by JeremyZ

...
My point was to get ideas on how to get this for what I consider a reasonable amount of money, and electronically, if possible. (not to get lectured on how the free market system works)

I think if you asked that way from the get-go you would have gotten more straightforward answers and suggestions. How you worded your post contains what many consider erroneous misconceptions and folks will take the time to clear them up.

Getting to your original point here is your option.

• Buy the eBook for $9.99. It's cheaper than a new pBook and cheaper than any other eBook retailer
• Exercise your choice as a consumer and don't by the eBook.
• Check out the book in the library (paper book or electronically--if you have access to one)
• Buy a used book for dirt cheap.

For the record I agree with you this book is way too expensive and should be cheaper considering it's age. But it is what it is. On a plus side Penguin classics tend to have supplemental material that enhances the book value

[fugazied]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

You could always get it from the Library (provided you have access to one).

That's what I would do for the time being. Amazon will get it's pricing right eventually. At the moment we have a massive surplus of print books in warehouses and millions of 2nd hand print books while the ebook licensing and technology is in it's infancy.

We still have publishers who are unsure of how 'safe' and 'viable' ebooks are! Those publishers aren't helping Amazon's pricing.

[demoric]

"How to get around corporate greed at Amazon?" I agree that it is the publisher who has marked the book up. Amazon's price of $9.99 for a classic seems to be a fair price to me Although I think around $7 would be better. However, what I recommend is just spending a few minutes using your googl-fu and you'll find Grapes of Wrath for download. Just thow in some extra words like "ebook download" and you'll find other places to purchase and format shift the book and some for "free" (meaning probably pirated) just be sure to verify the site's legal agreements, and use your own moral compass.

While I don't condone pirating as a means for getting works for free, I have been known to pickup an ebook when there wasn't one commercially available but only if I had a paper version. For example I used to have the "Lord of the Rings" books and darknet ebooks, but once they were available digitally I removed the darknet copies. Now I have the single hardback, paperback copies, and legitimate ebook copies.

[pwjone1]

Originally Posted by fugazied

That's what I would do for the time being. Amazon will get it's pricing right eventually. At the moment we have a massive surplus of print books in warehouses and millions of 2nd hand print books while the ebook licensing and technology is in it's infancy.

We still have publishers who are unsure of how 'safe' and 'viable' ebooks are! Those publishers aren't helping Amazon's pricing.

I'm often mystified why publishers don't flock to eBooks, because:

• Essentially no used book market to contend with
• Essentially no overstock situations where you have to eat books that don't sell

Part of the reason that paperbacks, coming out later, sell for cheaper, is that the hardcovers start to show up in the used book market and library sales. But with eBooks, you have to contend with neither, potentially prolonging the market shelf life of the book. I suppose the reluctance has to do with the Amazon publishing and related costs/uplifts, and just general unfamiliarity with the eBook market.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by hal_9000

no, true, nobody forced me to buy the amazon kindle. i "voluntarily" entered a monopoly, but that doesnt change the fact that its a monopoly. also, that's not the discussion as i understand it: it was in regard to the price of an ebook, not an edevice.

I'm curious about how Amazon can be considered to be a monopoly. There are dozens of sources of DRM-free Mobipocket books, all of which the Kindle will read.

[kennyc]

Yes. This is a bit frustrating as the market is trying to shift and find price-points and re-tool. I've started similar threads asking how can it make sense for Amazon to sell a particular ebook for $12.95 when right next to it you can by a used paper back version for $0.25 (plus shipping)? (and particularly when it is DRM'd and in a proprietary format) -- but the answer really is convenience and what the market is willing to pay. For the time being it is going to be somewhat frustrating.

What caught my eye about this thread was the particular book - The Grapes of Wrath which I've been looking for in ebook form. Just not available in epub as far as I've been able to find (other than poor and illegal copies). I'd certainly be willing to pay $10 for it in Epub format but can't find it.

It's going to be some time (if ever) before the entire book industry is fully digital and there are going to be growing pains.

As far as Monopoly and Greed I'm not seeing that with regard to the initial statement here, but I do see a significant difference in price in ebook and used paperback....that's the market as it currently exists.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm curious about how Amazon can be considered to be a monopoly. There are dozens of sources of DRM-free Mobipocket books, all of which the Kindle will read.

That's right. Looking at the list of books currently on my Kindle, less than half came from Amazon.