"eBook versions of owned paper books" Popular Front

[braver]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Some publishers who post here have said the Amazon contract demands the right for Amazon to put DRM on the books at their discretion; publishers cannot refuse to allow DRM on their Kindlebooks.

That's interesting. So Amazon may add DRM; are there cases where it didn't? Is there anybody from Amazon Kindle group here? We need to engage them, IMHO.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by braver

DRM is the publishers' decision -- Amazon is run on Linux and all geeks are pro-Open-Source. So I'd separate the DRM question.

I wouldn't go that far. You've obviously never dealt with many 'softies.

Also, Amazon owns the DRM they use, and charges for it's use. It is in their best interest to use it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by braver

I've posted in in the Kindle forum, then realized it applies across the board.

Over the last 10 years, I've bought thousands of dollars worth of books on Amazon. Now that I've got the Kindle, I thought I'd be able to upgrade some of the heavier and more used ones to digital.

Alas, the "digital upgrade" feature only allows you to read page images on the Web.

To my request for Kindle versions of the books I own, when available, Amazon replied that currently they "don't have plans" to provide such.

I believe that as owners of paper books, we have every right to get the Kindle versions for free or only a nominal fee -- sharing the OCR and distribution costs, as well as transfer. Heck, I'd pay $5. Max. OK, $10... for some.

Now this won't happen unless we all self-organize and enlist journalists and congressmen in order for this to happen. In fact it applies to the whole ebook arena. What do you guys think? What is already done or being done on this front?

And what about 8-Track > Cassette > LP > CD? That never happened and never will.

Floppy Disk > CD > DVD? Not gonna happen.

Beta > VHS > DVD? Not gonna happen.

Hardcover > Paperback > eBook? Not gonna happen. Give it up. This is a silly idea. When you go from one medium to another you aren't entitled to the content in another container.

Why is it you think you are entitled to the eBook just because you've purchased the pbook? And why should it be Amazon giving it you? If anything, it would be the publisher giving it to you. And as they don't do Kindle compatible eBooks with DRM, you are out of luck if you own a Kindle.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

I have CDs I've purchased; that doesn't entitle me to free or low cost MP3s of the same songs.

Actually, because you have the CD, you can get free MP3. Just rip the CD to MP3 and done.

[braver]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And what about 8-Track > Cassette > LP > CD? That never happened and never will.

Floppy Disk > CD > DVD? Not gonna happen.

Beta > VHS > DVD? Not gonna happen.

Hardcover > Paperback > eBook? Not gonna happen. Give it up. This is a silly idea. When you go from one medium to another you aren't entitled to the content in another container.

As was explained several times already, this is a silly comparison (just returning your term).

(1) you did not buy your "floppies with content" on Amazon
(2) you did not buy your 8-track on Amazon
(3) different physical carriers cost money to make, as opposed to a software file
(4) Amazon knows exactly what you own on paper, and offers you digital upgrade already. On the web, not ebook yet -- but there's no difference why not.

Give up silly comparisons of ebook/pbook dichotomy to 8-track/CD! It doesn't work, doesn't make sense, and doesn't translate, and you know better.

[braver]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

I wouldn't go that far. You've obviously never dealt with many 'softies.

Also, Amazon owns the DRM they use, and charges for it's use. It is in their best interest to use it.

I'm a software engineer and know pretty well the sentiment toward MSFT, if that's what you mean.

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by braver

Give up silly comparisons of ebook/pbook dichotomy to 8-track/CD! It doesn't work, doesn't make sense, and doesn't translate, and you know better.

Quite obviously many here think the comparison of a pbook to an ebook is silly to begin with and the suggestion that if you buy the former you are entitled to the latter at any time in the future that you choose, at the publishers expense, even sillier.

As I mentioned before, I think if the idea was implemented for a nominal fee at the time of purchase it may be workable. To expect Amazon or any other company to supply an ebook for a discount at any time of your choosing in the future is simply not going to happen in the foreseeable future, if ever.

Cheers,
PKFFW

[braver]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

Quite obviously many here think the comparison of a pbook to an ebook is silly to begin with and the suggestion that if you buy the former you are entitled to the latter at any time in the future that you choose, at the publishers expense, even sillier.

As I mentioned before, I think if the idea was implemented for a nominal fee at the time of purchase it may be workable. To expect Amazon or any other company to supply an ebook for a discount at any time of your choosing in the future is simply not going to happen in the foreseeable future, if ever.

Cheers,
PKFFW

How familiar are you with the "digital upgrade" feature on Amazon as it exists already? How do you think it works -- at any point in the, um, future?

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by braver

How familiar are you with the "digital upgrade" feature on Amazon as it exists already? How do you think it works -- at any point in the, um, future?

I'm not familiar with it at all.

I am familiar with your assertion that this is not what you want as you are not satisfied with that feature. What you want is for Amazon to supply you with a digital file you can download and own outright and read on your kindle whenever you want. You want them to do this for free(preferably) or for "only a nominal fee"(I'm assuming "nominal" means a token fee that doesn't even cover the cost involved because you feel entitled to it anyway since you have bought another version of the same thing). You want them to do this for any pbook you buy via Amazon whether or not Amazon is the actual seller, has the rights to the digital version or any other hurdle.

You further believe all this is "inevitable" anyway. Which leaves me wondering why you are arguing so hard with anyone who does not share your opinion. I think your time would be better served by using your stated connections with the company to instigate change and politely asking any who agree with you to do the same.

I wont even bother going into your assertion that "the US is the cradle of technosocial and business innovation, so you'll have to look up to us and follow the lead...." since if you can't see the writing on that particular wall then you are in for a ruder shock than Amazon not doing what you want it to.

Cheers,
PKFFW

[braver]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

I'm not familiar with it at all.

...

Cheers,
PKFFW

The defense rests after the bold quotation. Most of the assumptions after that are wrong, too.

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by braver

The defense rests after the bold quotation. Most of the assumptions after that are wrong, too.

1: There is only one assumption(regarding your meaning of "nominal fee"), the rest is simply what you have stated.

2: The fact you allude to this being like a court of law with yourself as the defendant indicates you are not here to discuss but rather to "prove your point". That being the case then I suggest you merely state your point, state that you don't really care if anyone has anything to say that disagrees with your point and then leave it at that.

Cheers,
PKFFW

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by braver

As was explained several times already, this is a silly comparison (just returning your term).

(1) you did not buy your "floppies with content" on Amazon
(2) you did not buy your 8-track on Amazon
(3) different physical carriers cost money to make, as opposed to a software file
(4) Amazon knows exactly what you own on paper, and offers you digital upgrade already. On the web, not ebook yet -- but there's no difference why not.

Give up silly comparisons of ebook/pbook dichotomy to 8-track/CD! It doesn't work, doesn't make sense, and doesn't translate, and you know better.

What's silly is this insistence that you are owed/entitled to a new product just cause you bought an old one. That's what needs to be "given up" - your thinking is simply wrong.

[K-Thom]

different physical carriers cost money to make, as opposed to a software file

So you believe software files grow on trees? Just because they aren't physical doesn't mean their production doesn't cost any labour/manpower and eventually money. My ...

But you already lost me on the

Too bad if you're elsewhere in the world, but the US is the cradle of technosocial and business innovation, so you'll have to look up to us and follow the lead

It's 2009, not 1969 ... the USA aren't neither technologically nor economically or socially leading in any kind. Wake up. And Amazon's but one company. Big in the US, of some market share worldwide, but nothing more than a distributor or large wholesale store.
So any of their decisons won't have that much of an implication on an international level.

Also your assumption of

DRM is the publishers' decision

simply isn't correct. While most publishers wholeheartedly accept the DRM on their titles, it's Amazon's technology and Amazon's business decision to implement DRM.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by braver

As was explained several times already, this is a silly comparison (just returning your term).

(1) you did not buy your "floppies with content" on Amazon
(2) you did not buy your 8-track on Amazon
(3) different physical carriers cost money to make, as opposed to a software file
(4) Amazon knows exactly what you own on paper, and offers you digital upgrade already. On the web, not ebook yet -- but there's no difference why not.

Give up silly comparisons of ebook/pbook dichotomy to 8-track/CD! It doesn't work, doesn't make sense, and doesn't translate, and you know better.

Did you actually read what I said? I said it would be up to the publishers and the publishers don't do AZW. Also, I'm pointing out the history of content and containers. Nobody got free upgrades to all their old media to new media just because it came out in a different container. So why would Amazon do this for you? Can you tell me one company that said "Ok, we have a new container for old media. Let's give it away to everyone who purchased the old container.: The answer is NOT A SINGLE ONE.

[Hellmark]

If this is done, why does it have to be the retailer (in your case Amazon)? I shouldn't expect Walmart, or Borders, or anyone else to do it for me. They sell the books, that others make, even in the case of ebooks.