geographic restrictions at Fictionwise

[ahi]

Originally Posted by zerospinboson

I would suggest you email them to see if you can get a refund, or something.

I wonder why they display at all books that the person browsing cannot purchase...

- Ahi

[Ea]

Originally Posted by ahi

I wonder why they display at all books that the person browsing cannot purchase...

- Ahi

Probably because implementing that may be tricky - depending on their backend systems. Perhaps they don't do any checks on the customer until one is positively identified during the purchasing process. I think it's prudent to be very conservative with restrictions and implement as little as possible until it's positively needed. You don't know what or who you accidently filter out.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by dickon25

[...]
Does anyone from Fictionwise lurk on Mobileread? Has anyone seen any comments from them on this issue? I, for one, will not be buying there again.

I would guess so. I would do it if I were them. I would also stay out of commenting anything here - too sticky an issue

Personally, I've decided that it's a waste of energy of being very angry about this, and just move on. There's not much I can do. Prices have levelled out a lot, and I already have a great deal of books in my to-read "stack". On top of that, even if books bought in UK are more expensive than US, they're still much cheaper than what I'd pay for Danish language p-books.

It'll all probably change in a few years, like it did for music, and in the meantime I'll make do with what I can find - and it's less likely that I will return later, but ultimately that's their loss, more than mine.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Ea

Probably because implementing that may be tricky - depending on their backend systems. Perhaps they don't do any checks on the customer until one is positively identified during the purchasing process. I think it's prudent to be very conservative with restrictions and implement as little as possible until it's positively needed. You don't know what or who you accidently filter out.

They could go the way Amazon does. Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, et cetera.

- Ahi

[dickon25]

They could go the way Amazon does. Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, et cetera.

Maybe they will...that's what Books on Board have done. Of course, the attraction of US sites for us in the UK/EU is price and choice. The BoB UK site is pretty good for both but the UK etailers like WHSmith and Waterstones are nowhere near as good. I know this is publisher driven and we shouldn't be ranting at stores but I just resent having my options limited like this!

[nomesque]

Originally Posted by Ea

Probably because implementing that may be tricky - depending on their backend systems. Perhaps they don't do any checks on the customer until one is positively identified during the purchasing process. I think it's prudent to be very conservative with restrictions and implement as little as possible until it's positively needed. You don't know what or who you accidently filter out.

Optional filter: Filter by Availability (<country>)

Not really THAT hard, dammit.

[ficbot]

I don't think it has to do with 'home country' so much as 'country where one has bank account/credit card.' I went to graduate school in New Zealand for a year, never planned to stay for longer than that year (lovely country, but much too far away from my family) and in fact returned to Canada once that year was up. But while I was there, I did maintain a small bank account. I would withdraw money once a month from my Canadian bank account into which my mother deposited money on my behalf every month one time to minimize the service fee, deposit that money into my NZ bank account and use my NZ bank card. All I had to do was show up at the bank with a copy of my lease agreement on my flat (and my student ID to get the student rate) and tell them I wanted a bank account. If there were any geographical restrictions at that time which excluded Canadians but included Kiwis, all I would need to do was use my NZ bank info. And vice versa, I could always use my Canadian credit card to order things on-line that way Similarly right now, I can order a physical product from a Canada-only store, and mail it to my sister in California with no problems. If I am understanding the tech correctly, it has nothing to do with where a person is physically located or what their citizenship might be, it's where your bank and credit card info is.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by ficbot

I don't think it has to do with 'home country' so much as 'country where one has bank account/credit card.' I went to graduate school in New Zealand for a year, never planned to stay for longer than that year (lovely country, but much too far away from my family) and in fact returned to Canada once that year was up. But while I was there, I did maintain a small bank account. I would withdraw money once a month from my Canadian bank account into which my mother deposited money on my behalf every month one time to minimize the service fee, deposit that money into my NZ bank account and use my NZ bank card. All I had to do was show up at the bank with a copy of my lease agreement on my flat (and my student ID to get the student rate) and tell them I wanted a bank account. If there were any geographical restrictions at that time which excluded Canadians but included Kiwis, all I would need to do was use my NZ bank info. And vice versa, I could always use my Canadian credit card to order things on-line that way Similarly right now, I can order a physical product from a Canada-only store, and mail it to my sister in California with no problems. If I am understanding the tech correctly, it has nothing to do with where a person is physically located or what their citizenship might be, it's where your bank and credit card info is.

Sigh.

[ficbot]

Originally Posted by ahi

Sigh.

What's the problem? I was responding to all those people who were talking about what if an American was overseas on vacation, could they buy a book or what if a foreigner was on vacation in America, could they etc. All I was saying was that it doesn't seem like they are filtering (at least in this instance) based on where the person physically is located at the time (although with IP trackers, I suppose that is an eventual possibility and/or other scheme other stores might use) but rather on where the person gets their credit card (e.g. asking for an American credit card to validate the download). I am not saying I agree with this scheme. Personally I would love to be without these restrictions, myself, especially as a non-American. But my example was merely to point out that nationality and physical location don't seem to be the issue here.

[pwarren]

Just wanted to clarify, Fictionwise and Shotcovers didn't actually charge my credit card, it was an "authorisation" which is different to a purchase. My financial institution's web site made it appear that the money had gone from my account, but it has come back now after 7 days.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by ahi

What are you basing your contrary view on, Sweetpea?

- Ahi

By the fact that if I can "fool" the system (partly) by giving an US address. And by the fact that if I enter that US CC, I'll be able to download The Lost Symbol, without spoofing my IP.

Also on BoB, I've given NL as my country and I can't download all books, if I put up US, I can. It probably also have that CC country check, haven't tried that out yet.

After reading all those things on Amazon, where people aren't allowed to buy ebooks, even though they have a Kindle or Ipod or Itouch, because they don't have an US CC.

It doesn't look where you're living, but it looks where your bank is living (as ficbot already showed). And as you generally don't have a bank account (checking account I believe it's called in English) in a country where you're not living, that check, generally, works.

Originally Posted by ahi

I wonder why they display at all books that the person browsing cannot purchase...

- Ahi

They said they were working on that...

Originally Posted by dickon25

They could go the way Amazon does. Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, et cetera.

Maybe they will...that's what Books on Board have done. Of course, the attraction of US sites for us in the UK/EU is price and choice. The BoB UK site is pretty good for both but the UK etailers like WHSmith and Waterstones are nowhere near as good. I know this is publisher driven and we shouldn't be ranting at stores but I just resent having my options limited like this!

I noticed something funny about that. I went to BoB, US side. I could find those books I wanted. I couldn't buy all formats, as some were restricted to my country. But if I went UK side (I'm neither UK or US), those books weren't available!

Originally Posted by nomesque

Optional filter: Filter by Availability (<country>)

Not really THAT hard, dammit.

They want to implement something like BoB has, trying to find several publishers for the same book, so they can deliver to the whole world.

What I find strange is the fact that an English language book, is restricted for non-English speaking countries. As if a Dutch publisher will print an English book...

[Ea]

Originally Posted by nomesque

Optional filter: Filter by Availability (<country>)

Not really THAT hard, dammit.

Not necessarily hard, but implementing any kind of restriction carries the risk of restricting more than you want. For example:

They would need to be positively certain of who you are. Only showing books at all if you are logged in would be a way of ensuring that. Wouldn't that be annoying you were at a friend's and wanted to look for a book?

Secondly, they would have to define precisely what "country" means and how to find it out. "Country" could be the address of the bank account connected with the credit card. It could be based on the IP address of the computer you use during the checkout process - or the computer you use when you put the book in the cart - or the computer you use when you create a user account at FW (it's not necessarily the same). Or country could be based one the language your browser is set to... Or something else entirely.

In all these cases you risk locking out and annoy customers of you get it wrong - which there's risk of. Personally I dont like seeing books I can't buy - at least not if it's most of those I would like to buy - but it would also be bad for FW if books I could buy that I couldn't see.

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by A Nonny Mouse

Really, is anybody surprised that a back door has been closed after it has been so openly discussed here?

It does seem slightly odd that they would be bothered, you would think that implementing the geographic restrictions would enough to keep the store out of trouble.

[HansTWN]

Looks like we shouldn't be discussing ways to get around geographic restrictions in the open here. Websites are watching this forum and plugging the holes as we speak. Perhaps by PM on request? I finally managed to get around the Amazon/iphone app regional restrictions after lots of failures. Similar ways have been reported but they had plugged some of those holes, one final twist did it.

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Looks like we shouldn't be discussing ways to get around geographic restrictions in the open here. Websites are watching this forum and plugging the holes as we speak. Perhaps by PM on request? I finally managed to get around the Amazon/iphone app regional restrictions after lots of failures. Similar ways have been reported but they had plugged some of those holes, one final twist did it.

Indeed, even if we can't be sure that the sites haven't simply found the loopholes themselves, it does seem sensible not to make things easy for them.