Kindles yet to woo University users

[Latinandgreek]

On the plus side, students of greek and latin (like me!) can get most of their required reading material for free on the net - most of it is public domain! Literature students in general would get a lot of use out of their readers, I dare say. I tend to type up my class notes, and when exam time comes around I just throw 'em onto my reader! I have never been one to mark up books in their paper form, so I don't find that I need that function on my reader, but people who find that they need that function can pick up a sony prs 600 or perhaps one of the i-rex models if they are so inclined.

[Grauheim]

They have to get this right. Textbooks are the killer app that will get ereaders into the main stream. University students spend upwards of $1,000 on books each year. If e-textbooks can be made cheaper, it will make good economic sense to buy the reader.

The biggest problem is that current formats are woefully inadequate for textbooks. EPub does not support vector graphics, which are needed for diagrams, graphs and mathematical text. PDF is suitable for typesetting textbooks, but does not display well on anything other than the largest, most expensive readers.

We need the vector formatting of PDF in a fully reflowable document format. Latex already accomplishes this, so we know it can be done.

Colour would help too, but is much less important.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Grauheim

We need ... PDF in a fully reflowable document format. Latex already accomplishes this, so we know it can be done.

Have you generated multiple PDFs from a single LaTeX source document before?

The accuracy of your statement wholly depends on how low one's expectations are of the output.

- Ahi

[davidspitzer]

To me seems to be the publishers. They need to let go of their baseless fears and produce quality textbooks in an excepted ebook format (not just a pdf scan of the book). The Kindle DX and other ebook readers are quite capable of serving a students needs, but it is more about the content at this point rather then the hardware (IMHO)

I am going to law school right now and very few of my law textbooks are in ebook or even pdf format. Kaplan does have study guides for all my law classes which in paper format are $30 - $50 but are also in Kindle format are $10-$20 - I purchased them all (for my Kindle DX) - they are great reads, well formatted and in most instances replace my ridiculously drawn out reading of my paper hornbooks and case books.

I ahh have a friend you see..., who scans all his textbooks in but has told me that he would have been more than happy to avoid the expense and time to scan in the paper versions, so they can be read on his Kindle DX

[ahi]

Originally Posted by davidspitzer

To me seems to be the publishers. They need to let go of their baseless fears and produce quality textbooks in an excepted ebook format (not just a pdf scan of the book).

Are there any real world layout-intensive textbooks that have been released in a reflow format without being drastically stripped from the useful complexities of the original paper edition?

I'd be curious to see one, since so many people here seem to think that it is possible to do such a thing with professional quality.

- Ahi

[davidspitzer]

Originally Posted by ahi

Are there any real world layout-intensive textbooks that have been released in a reflow format without being drastically stripped from the useful complexities of the original paper edition?

I'd be curious to see one, since so many people here seem to think that it is possible to do such a thing with professional quality.

- Ahi

The kaplan Study guides I purchased - seem to work just fine and they are an analog for the paper version, with the exception of the variable page count due to font size.

Some books will be more complex, but where you might have multi column pages with artfully placed graphics with text flowing around them etc in the paper version, you would have to go with a more linear model where the pertinent text is displayed with the graphics inline either before or after the text. I do not feel it would diminish my ability to learn if the material was more linear in fashion, rather than perhaps a more ad-hoc arrangment is as the case with some textbooks.

I think a large factor is openess to change - people used to paper books will have to alter thier workflow and approach to studying when using an ebook. it does not mean its inferior, nay, I will even put forth that I believe it to be superior, but I have embraced using an ereader in my lifestyle.

The change will not happen overnight, but I have to think in the age of such environmental awareness that our children, being adept with technology will be willing to embrace the needed changes

The following statistic is was taken from the University Of Colorado website regarding recycling, and even though I trust their sources I still am staggered and not sure I can fully accept the number

It takes 75,000 trees to print a Sunday Edition of the New York Times.

Is that even possible?

It is not a question of can we do it; it would almost seem to be a moral imparative to reduce the amount of paper we consume. Starting with the people that will one day be running the world, namely the people in our school and universities

[queentess]

Originally Posted by ahi

Admittedly my device does not have the magic abilities of yours. All I can do is bookmark... :-/ So good points for those with an eBook device that supports user annotations.

I think this "magic" ability will be what makes or breaks how useful ebooks are for studying. The unfortunate part is, I've had some e-textbooks that support the feature and some that don't. Could be I've used some texts that were direct pdf scans, and some that were actually pdf's formatted for ereaders? I'm really not sure. But I agree with most other posters: I think once the e-textbook market takes off they'll spend the resources to make the books truly useful.

[davidspitzer]

Originally Posted by queentess

I think this "magic" ability will be what makes or breaks how useful ebooks are for studying. The unfortunate part is, I've had some e-textbooks that support the feature and some that don't. Could be I've used some texts that were direct pdf scans, and some that were actually pdf's formatted for ereaders? I'm really not sure. But I agree with most other posters: I think once the e-textbook market takes off they'll spend the resources to make the books truly useful.

yes one will drive the other - itunes drove the electronic format of music (regardless of your stance on Apple they carried clout with the labels and changed the way the world buys and listens to music). Now CD sales are evaporating. Some hate Amazon some love them either way I think they are uniquly suited to perform a similar role in the publishing arena

[queentess]

Originally Posted by davidspitzer

(regardless of your stance on Apple they carried clout with the labels and changed the way the world buys and listens to music) [...] Some hate Amazon some love them either way I think they are uniquly suited to perform a similar role in the publishing arena

Good point. I actually think that what Amazon's doing is very similar to what Apple did with iTunes/iPod. Apple had the content, locked down with DRM, playable only on their device or through their software, and they used that massive amount of content to sell devices. Amazon's doing the same thing so far. I'd like to see them continue to follow in Apple's business model and eventually unlock their content. The only thing I have a problem with right now is that the Kindles don't support ePub.

[hal_9000]

is the problem the kindle or the student? some kids aren't going to read a book or a kindle (at least not until its facebook browsing feature is improved)

[fugazied]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

A non-touchscreen device can never be a replacement for pen and paper (or books and paper). The need to annotate, highlight, underline, etc, is just too big.

Also there is a large difference between paper and a fluro highlighter and an ebook device. However I can see the ebook devices getting ready for the academic market within a few iterations.

The thing that suprises me is that Amazon haven't already sat down and said "let's get the academic sector, it's worth billions". Because seriously, it's an obvious choice selling/renting ebook devices to students loaded with academic texts and adding advanced notation features to the Kindles (also things like being able to 'add-on' a touch pad interface for mathematical formulas, illustrations, quick notes).

[dmaul1114]

Yeah, the technology isn't there yet. They need bigger screens, color, easy ability to highlight stuff and take notes in the margins, easier to flip through when studying etc.

I'm really intersted, as I've said many times, in some kind of tablet or other device that will let me read, flip through, highlight and take notes on PDFs of scholarly articles, academic books, text books for courses I'm teaching etc.

I love my Kindle for leisure reading, but current eReaders are just useless to me in my academic work.

[ahi]

David, I won't reply in detail as I've already ranted too much elsewhere about this topic (eBook quality) elsewhere.

Let me just say that while you are right about the environmental imperative, I think you (and many others) underestimate the possibilities offered by eBook reading devices due to the fundamentally ill-suited formats that most eBooks are offered in (along with the inattention with which they tend to be prepared with regardless of the choice of format).

- Ahi

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by ahi

I think you (and many others) underestimate the possibilities offered by eBook reading devices due to the fundamentally ill-suited formats that most eBooks are offered in...

It doesn't seem to me like format is even an issue for the students.

The main issues cited by the students et al in the article are technological limitations, unrelated to format, that may be fixable in the future. The readers are slow, are harder to annotate than paper books, and can't be cited using standard page numbers. Not seeing how format has anything to do with these problems.

[ficbot]

I had one experience with e-textbooks and it was dismal. You couldn't download it for off-line reading, couldn't search it, couldn't even copy one sentence to cite in your assignments. All you could do was read on-screen, or print. Useless!