Banned Book Week starts Saturday

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by HarryT

OK, so you'd be happy to see books on sale which providing detailed instructions for making bombs, and committing acts of terrorism, or which openly encouraged hate crimes against certain segments of society?

I'm sorry, but I really cannot agree with you. Free speach has to have its limits.

Yes. Information is knowledge, what you do with it is a social issue.

[HarryT]

Exactly, and we live in a society which has "rules". Among those "rules" are such things as "you're not allowed to publish books telling people how to make bombs". If you want to call that "banning books", then go ahead.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Exactly, and we live in a society which has "rules". Among those "rules" are such things as "you're not allowed to publish books telling people how to make bombs". If you want to call that "banning books", then go ahead.

And that's exactly the point of discussion, there should be such rule to ban knowledge, certainly there should be rules regarding the actions taken by individuals.

Knowing how to do something is a very different thing than acting on it.

[HarryT]

Knowing how to do something is fine. Telling someone else how to do that same thing is, in certain circumstances, not fine. There's no law against knowing how to make bombs; there is a law against publishing books telling other people how to do it.

[Wetdogeared]

Removed reading suggestions. Thread became more about why and why not books should or shouldn't be banned rather than reading banned books.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So you think it's "horrible" that "Mein Kampf" is banned in Germany, Sweetpea? I think personally that there are situations (such as this one) where it is entirely justifyable.

Unless you are of the opinion that German Neo-Nazis generally have no internet access, Germany's current sociopolitical state is probably a fairly good argument why the banning of books like "Mein Kampf" is unnecessary.

- Ahi

[ahi]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Knowing how to do something is fine. Telling someone else how to do that same thing is, in certain circumstances, not fine. There's no law against knowing how to make bombs; there is a law against publishing books telling other people how to do it.

I'm fairly sure that your statement in its current broad generality is incorrect.

Or are scholarly publications relating to low-grade explosives restricted in their circulation by legal statutes (or are altogether illegal)?

- Ahi

[rrburton]

Originally Posted by HarryT

OK, so you'd be happy to see books on sale which providing detailed instructions for making bombs, and committing acts of terrorism, or which openly encouraged hate crimes against certain segments of society?

I'm sorry, but I really cannot agree with you. Free speach has to have its limits.

Limited free speech? It's either free or it's not.

If the guideline is whether someone could use an object or idea to "make bombs, commit acts of terrorism, or openly encouraged hate crimes against certain segments of society", then almost everything including thought needs to be banned.

sorry.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by HarryT

OK, so you'd be happy to see books on sale which providing detailed instructions for making bombs, and committing acts of terrorism, or which openly encouraged hate crimes against certain segments of society?

Again.

Internet, Harry.

Do you think any category of documents you mentioned aren't available at a moments notice via Google?

If somebody wants to do any of those things, lack of formally published literature on the subject won't be the thing that stops them.

- Ahi

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Knowing how to do something is fine. Telling someone else how to do that same thing is, in certain circumstances, not fine. There's no law against knowing how to make bombs; there is a law against publishing books telling other people how to do it.

Is there such a law?
Amazon(UK) sell books with bomb-making instructions.

[NormHart]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, that's very much my view, too, which is why I think it's unwise to make a blanket statement that "banning books is always bad". I think myself that to prohibit the publication of books which openly advocate "hate crimes" is entirely justifyable.

On the contrary, banning such books does not ban the concept of hatred for ludicrous reasons. Permitting such books to be published opens the door for counter arguments, encourages the open discussion of such silly ideas as "because they are different they must be...". Shining a light in these dark corners of the human condition is far more useful and powerful than futile attempts at suppressing them. These dark concepts live in the shadows, handed down from generation to generation, person to person in isolation, exposure to the light of reason and frank discussion destroys them.

And where do you stop? Current Western thinking has many blind spots, areas where it is taboo to write or discuss, these taboo areas change with the tide of societal thinking, religions, and media frenzy. The first thing that any one under suspicion faces now is the accusation of "terrorism" or, even more foggily, "supporting terrorism". America has given up precious freedoms to counter "terrorism" but the term is poorly defined legally and open to abuse. Should we ban all books about Muslim Fundamentalism? Should Islamic states ban all books on Christian Fundamentalism? Where will that lead?

You are trying to draw a line in shifting sands with the sands moving under you and you are more likely to error on the side of evil than on the side of good. You have read many fiction books from the '20 and '30 and seen the overt sexism and racism in them. Does banning these books change our society now? Would banning them back then changed that society then?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rrburton

Limited free speech? It's either free or it's not.

On the contrary, there are all sorts of laws restricting what it is and is not permissible to say or to print. You are not permitted to publish information which would compromise national security. You are not permitted to stand in a public place and yell "I'm going to kill the President!". You are not permitted to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre merely because you feel like doing so. All these acts will have undesirable consequences for you. No society permits completely unrestricted free speach, and for good reason.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by HarryT

OK, so you'd be happy to see books on sale which providing detailed instructions for making bombs, and committing acts of terrorism, or which openly encouraged hate crimes against certain segments of society?

I'm sorry, but I really cannot agree with you. Free speach has to have its limits.

And I cannot agree with you. Once a government/society starts down that slippery slope, it will not stop. And as far as "encouraging hate crimes", well... careful quoting out of even the Bible or the Koran can render up "hate messages". Care to put a ban on those?

Derek

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by HarryT

On the contrary, there are all sorts of laws restricting what it is and is not permissible to say or to print. You are not permitted to publish information which would compromise national security. You are not permitted to stand in a public place and yell "I'm going to kill the President!". You are not permitted to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre merely because you feel like doing so. All these acts will have undesirable consequences for you. No society permits completely unrestricted free speach, and for good reason.

One of the stupider sets of laws - banning the shouting of "Fire" in a crowded theater... Sure, it's dangerous, but that has been the 'justification' used for so many other bad laws against free speech.

Derek

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

And I cannot agree with you. Once a government/society starts down that slippery slope, it will not stop. And as far as "encouraging hate crimes", well... careful quoting out of even the Bible or the Koran can render up "hate messages". Care to put a ban on those?

Derek

I don't know what the situation is in the US, Derek, but publishing leaflets which use selective quoting from the Bible or the Koran for the promotion of hate crimes is most certainly illegal in the UK. As I said, I am aware of no country which permits completely unrestricted free speech.