Most overhyped classic masterpiece? - Page 8

nomesque · 09-21-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montsnmags

I don't mind depressing reads (Primo Levi's If This Is A Man, will always be on my bookshelves, though it's no picnic to read), but I've never read My Brilliant Career. Perhaps you don't mean that particular kind of "depressing" though.

At school, we hit some Aussie poets, but rarely Aussie novelists (An Imaginary Life by David Malouf, was about the extent, and thankfully I enjoyed it). I'm surprised, looking back, that we didn't get near My Brilliant Career.

It is interesting - I don't think we got ANY Aussie books to read. Except Mem Fox's Possum Magic, but that was a LONG time ago

The depressing nature of My Brilliant Career? I *wince* haven't read If This Is A Man, so I can't compare. But...

Spoiler:

montsnmags · 09-21-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomesque

It is interesting - I don't think we got ANY Aussie books to read. Except Mem Fox's Possum Magic, but that was a LONG time ago

Poets...Kenneth Slessor (quite the nihilist) and Richard Drewe are the one's I remember. I enjoyed both, and have bought a "Collected works" of Drewe's a few years ago.

Quote:

The depressing nature of My Brilliant Career? I *wince* haven't read If This Is A Man, so I can't compare. But...

Spoiler:

Who knows, I might like it. I should put Levi's If This Is A Man into perspective though - it's Levi's bearing witness to his experience surviving Auschwitz. I found it soul-crushingly brilliant - probably the book I treasure reading more than any other. The chaos in its followup, The Truce, is almost a relief, from the ordered destruction of the first. (In pbook form, you can get both together in the one book).

Anyway, speaking of poetry, I never got the hang of Gerard Manley Hopkins at school. He was incredibly easy to dislike, and so I took that easy path. It's only in recent years that I've, at the very least, come to admire his craftwork.

Against the OP's specifications of timeframe, I'll say that I rate Iris Murdoch's The Sea, The Sea as one of the most begrudged reading experiences I've had (and that wasn't even forced upon me - I only read it a couple of years ago). I actually rated as one of my worst reads ever. I don't pretend to be generally supported in this though.

Cheers,
Marc

Salgueiros · 09-21-2009, 11:43 PM

English-American Literature - Moby Dick

German Literature - Siddartha by Herman Hesse

French Literature - Nana by Emile Zola

Portuguese Literature - Lusiadas by Luis Vaz de Camoes

Ea · 09-22-2009, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

What books from your respective culture/language/region are in your opinion mediocre and over-praised? For what books would honest criticism be considered "blasphemy" and land you a title of "intellectual midget"?

Whose works are so unquestionably masterpieces, despite your opinions to the contrary, that to merely not buy it is an act of cultural treason?

Hans Christian Andersen's fairy tales.

WT Sharpe · 09-22-2009, 08:48 AM

One last thing I'll say about Moby Dick, and this by no means dampens my earlier criticisms of the work: The book contains some of the greatest quotations of all time; quotes that continue to find new life in other stories.

Who can forget Startrek II: The Wrath of Khan, when Khan says of Captain Kirk: "He tasks me, and I shall have him! I'll chase him round the Moons of Nibia, and round the Antares Maelstrom, and round perdition's flames before I give him up!"

Captain Ahab (Moby Dick): "I'll follow him around the Horn, and around the Norway maelstrom, and around perdition's flames before I give him up."

Or the scene from that same film when Khan realized his number was up but he was determined to strike at Kirk one last time: "You can't get away. From hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee."

Captain Ahab: "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."

And as for opening lines, perhaps only Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities has a more well-known one. Even so, I know of no three-word opening that's more instantly recognizable than "Call me Ishmael." Someone could argue that they know of another even better-known book that starts with "In the beginning," but to be sure, that's only the beginning of that sentence.

As I indicated earlier, if Reader's Digest had been around in Melville's day, this would have been a much more enjoyable book to read.

WT Sharpe · 09-22-2009, 08:59 AM

Moby Dick is like a diamond in a dunghill. You know something really valuable is in there, but you have to wade through a pile of crap to find it.

kennyc · 09-22-2009, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

One last thing I'll say about Moby Dick, and this by no means dampens my earlier criticisms of the work: The book contains some of the greatest quotations of all time; quotes that continue to find new life in other stories.

Who can forget Startrek II: The Wrath of Khan, when Khan says of Captain Kirk: "He tasks me, and I shall have him! I'll chase him round the Moons of Nibia, and round the Antares Maelstrom, and round perdition's flames before I give him up!"

Captain Ahab (Moby Dick): "I'll follow him around the Horn, and around the Norway maelstrom, and around perdition's flames before I give him up."

Or the scene from that same film when Khan realized his number was up but he was determined to strike at Kirk one last time: "You can't get away. From hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee."

Captain Ahab: "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee."

And as for opening lines, perhaps Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities has a more well-known one. Even so, I know of no three-word opening that's more instantly recognizable than "Call me Ishmael." Someone could argue that they know of another even better-known book that starts with "In the beginning," but to be sure, that's only the beginning of that sentence.

As I indicated earlier, if Reader's Digest had been around in Melville's day, this would have been a much more enjoyable book to read.

akira28 · 09-22-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

And as for opening lines, perhaps only Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities has a more well-known one. Even so, I know of no three-word opening that's more instantly recognizable than "Call me Ishmael." Someone could argue that they know of another even better-known book that starts with "In the beginning," but to be sure, that's only the beginning of that sentence.

"I AM BORN" in David Copperfield.

jbjb · 09-22-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ned

How about Salman Rushdie?
I waded through a few pages of Midnight's Children and all that came across was Rushdie shouting "Look at me, how clever I am" - I couldn't get past that to what he was actually on about.

I got the same impression from Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum. I made it to the end, but while the first half was great the second half left me cold.

The Name of the Rose, on the other hand, was wonderful throughout.

/JB

kaan · 09-22-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docinabox

Don Quixote---I'm sure it was a scream back in its day, but it just doesn't hold up well today.

+1

I can't get past the first half of the first volume.
Does it get better?

WT Sharpe · 09-22-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akira28

"I AM BORN" in David Copperfield.

Touché!

kennyc · 09-22-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akira28

"I AM BORN" in David Copperfield.

I wouldn't have known that one...

lilac_jive · 09-22-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

I wouldn't have known that one...

Don't feel bad, I didn't either...

Daithi · 09-22-2009, 03:06 PM

I'd agree with WT Sharpe that "Call me Ishmael." is the most recognized first 3 word line in any book and one of the most recognized opening sentences ever. Even if we included books where most people only know the start of the sentence I'd still have to think that "Call me Ishmael" from Moby Dick is in the top three.

The other two being --
In the beginning...
and
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...

Honorable mention should go to --
Once upon a time...
and
It was a dark and stormy night...

The most recognized two word opening sentence--
Who's there? <-- Shakespeare's Hamlet

Dickens' entire first line from A Tale of Two Cities --
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

119 words in a single sentence -- ARGGGHHHH!!!

FlorenceArt · 09-22-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daithi

119 words in a single sentence -- ARGGGHHHH!!!

Pffff... that's only a warm-up for Proust

09-22-2009, 08:48 AM	#110
WT Sharpe Bah, humbug! Posts: 39,072 Karma: 157049943 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.	Moby Dick: one final (I hope) comment One last thing I'll say about *Moby Dick, and this by no means dampens my earlier criticisms of the work: The book contains some of the greatest quotations of all time; quotes that continue to find new life in other stories. Who can forget Startrek II: The Wrath of Khan, when Khan says of Captain Kirk: "He tasks me, and I shall have him! I'll chase him round the Moons of Nibia, and round the Antares Maelstrom, and round perdition's flames before I give him up!" Captain Ahab (Moby Dick): "I'll follow him around the Horn, and around the Norway maelstrom, and around perdition's flames before I give him up." Or the scene from that same film when Khan realized his number was up but he was determined to strike at Kirk one last time: "You can't get away. From hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee." Captain Ahab: "Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee." And as for opening lines, perhaps only Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities* has a more well-known one. Even so, I know of no three-word opening that's more instantly recognizable than "Call me Ishmael." Someone could argue that they know of another even better-known book that starts with "In the beginning," but to be sure, that's only the beginning of that sentence. As I indicated earlier, if Reader's Digest had been around in Melville's day, this would have been a much more enjoyable book to read. Last edited by WT Sharpe; 09-22-2009 at 10:02 AM.

09-22-2009, 08:59 AM	#111
WT Sharpe Bah, humbug! Posts: 39,072 Karma: 157049943 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.	One really for sure final word on Moby Dick *Moby Dick* is like a diamond in a dunghill. You know something really valuable is in there, but you have to wade through a pile of crap to find it.

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09-21-2009, 11:43 PM	#108
Salgueiros Eudaimonia Posts: 898 Karma: 9164418 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Vancouver, Canada Device: Sony PRS T2, Sony PRS T3, Sony DPT-RP1	English-American Literature - Moby Dick German Literature - Siddartha by Herman Hesse French Literature - Nana by Emile Zola Portuguese Literature - Lusiadas by Luis Vaz de Camoes

09-22-2009, 03:06 PM	#119
Daithi Publishers are evil! Posts: 2,418 Karma: 36205264 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Rhode Island Device: Various Kindles	I'd agree with WT Sharpe that "Call me Ishmael." is the most recognized first 3 word line in any book and one of the most recognized opening sentences ever. Even if we included books where most people only know the start of the sentence I'd still have to think that "Call me Ishmael" from Moby Dick is in the top three. The other two being -- In the beginning... and It was the best of times, it was the worst of times... Honorable mention should go to -- Once upon a time... and It was a dark and stormy night... The most recognized two word opening sentence-- Who's there? <-- Shakespeare's Hamlet Dickens' entire first line from A Tale of Two Cities -- It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only. 119 words in a single sentence -- ARGGGHHHH!!!