Dual firmware announcement - Page 18

delphidb96 · 09-14-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

I guess most of you never typed a line of program ?
Oh, yeah, i forget, programing is just snapping your finger and your done...

"Typed" a line of program??? Hell, I've hand-written programs which I then translated to machine code and then entered them into the computer via front-panel switches!

And even back then I knew that programming took more time than the front-office types wanted to believe. My general rule of thumb when talking to contract employers is 250% of my first 'guesstimate'. And I've rarely been wrong!

Even so, had Bookeen concentrated upon delivering what it promised rather than birthing the Opus, we'd have already had the 1.5 version and they'd be well on their way towards the ePub 2.0 version of firmware.

Derek

delphidb96 · 09-14-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Or, you bumped into a problem that's somehow hard to solve for some reason, or you're doing something else in addition of programing.
I don't have the pretension to judge bookeen's work when i don't know what's going on there at all.

I don't know what's going on at bookeen, but i don't think they are delaying the firmware just because it's fun...

I DO have the pretension to judge Bookeen's work. I am both a CUSTOMER and a PROGRAMMER. Further, I used to sell Cybooks. So please understand that I speak from a broad range of experience (life and work) when I say that Bookeen has bungled the latest firmware updates.

Derek

delphidb96 · 09-14-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Software are hard to estimate

You should add some pretty big margin, there you have hopes it will do.

Actually, software is EASY to estimate - you just weigh the SD cards that hold the code!

Now estimating software *development* is a whole different turkey.

Derek

roncri · 09-14-2009, 07:24 PM

Actually, software isn't that hard to estimate, this is usually what happens.
Dev: Going by the design spec we figure that it will take 30,000 man hours which will mean a release date of mid-December.
Manager: To long, how can we shorten the release date to September?
Dev: Either hire more devs or cut features "B" and "F".
Manager: No budget to hire more devs. Cut B and F and we will plan on releasing in September.
TIME GOES ON
Manager: After looking over the competition we've decided we need to add B and F back in and we also have a new feature "K" we want to add but we still need to hit the September release date.
Dev: Then I need more people, we can't make this date with the resources I have.
Manager: I don't care about excuses, I want results

At this point morale is in the toilet and several devs leave the team to look for work elsewhere.

I actually had a job at a very large software company (makes an OS and is based in Redmond) where I got marked down on my review because my estimates were always longer than any other Dev on the team. I then pointed out that on the last project I was the ONLY dev to make all of their milestones. Didn't matter, I was still marked down as not being aggressive enough when it came to estimates.

It really makes no sense to me.

Demented · 09-15-2009, 12:00 AM

I'm a programmer as well and that's exactly how it goes. I now work for a consulting firm so that I don't have to deal with it

EowynCarter · 09-15-2009, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphidb96

I DO have the pretension to judge Bookeen's work. I am both a CUSTOMER and a PROGRAMMER. Further, I used to sell Cybooks. So please understand that I speak from a broad range of experience (life and work) when I say that Bookeen has bungled the latest firmware updates.

Derek

Have you ever programed on an e-reader ?
Do you know how things works at bookeen ?
Nope. You can't judge something unless you have all the facts.

Yes, there was some serious screw up. I'll have to wait a bit for firmware, so what ? Not the end of the world.

billyad2000 · 09-15-2009, 04:38 AM

To be honest, while I love my Cybook to bits, but this new firmware is a bit of a joke.

I am a programmer myself, and there is nothing in the new feature list that would take any real length of time to complete, the only major change is the parallel version containing Epub, and I cant see why even a single part time programmer would not have this completed after a year.
Sometimes deadlines are not met, unexpected issues and bugs can crop up that can slow or halt progress, but not by this much.

For some reason I find myself visualising Bookeen as a single person working from his garden shed, answering the phone, replying to the odd email, preparing orders, working on other projects, such as the opus, and when he gets a spare few minutes, he will have a look at the firmware or other apparently low priority tasks such as updating the blog and website.

I am also disappointed about the fact that a working Mobipocket version of the firmware has been available for some time now, and despite the fact that all of Bookeens oldest Cybook customers may have benefited from this, they have not seen fit to release the firmware. Epub is all well and good, but if the Mobipocket firmware works then why not release it.

It is strange how this has effected my thoughts of Bookeen, if they had never promised a firmware then I would never have had an issue, but from a marketing point of view this firmware has likely done more damage than if they had not bothered at all. To give a customer an expectation of something, then keep delaying it is just taking away from a great product.
"Expectation postponed is making the heart sick" (Proverbs 13:12)

EowynCarter · 09-15-2009, 05:30 AM

Quote:

I am also disappointed about the fact that a working Mobipocket version of the firmware has been available for some time now, and despite the fact that all of Bookeens oldest Cybook customers may have benefited from this, they have not seen fit to release the firmware. Epub is all well and good, but if the Mobipocket firmware works then why not release it.

I think the problem is getting it to work with all the gen 3.

Quote:

I am a programmer myself, and there is nothing in the new feature list that would take any real length of time to complete, the only major change is the parallel version containing Epub, and I cant see why even a single part time programmer would not have this completed after a year.

True. But lots of other stuff went in the mix. The whole amazon drm mess, getting licensing from adobe... Add to that the opus, all the stuff they have to do we don't know about. And it seams yet another reader is in the making too.

emellaich · 09-15-2009, 06:02 AM

It may not have been quite so bad, but we went through something similar on the last firmware upgrade. For me, these problems are always management problems, not programmer's. Why, because it's management's job to fix it.

1) Is it a resource problem? Hire more. Yes, adding more people to a late project can make it later, but this has been an ongoing problem over the last couple of years.

2) Is it a skill problem? Hire the appropriate skills, and possibly fire inappropriate ones. If you can't find the skills locally, then outsource.

It is possible that it is a resource issue. Bookeen may be too small to justify sufficient resources. If this is true they have a major issue. The problem is that they are competing against quite a few deep pocket competitors: Sony and eventually Amazon, Samsung, Fujitsu, ASUS, etcetera. As a first entrant the small scale approach worked fine, but if they can't scale up they need to either adapt or die. One option would be to use their current programming $ to pay someone else (pocketbook? Netronix?) to produce a customized version of an existing product.

Hanselda · 09-15-2009, 06:50 AM

Oh god. We are discussing in 18 pages for something that does not exist, yet. Any arguments or speculations are just vacuum without a real downloadable firmware file.

And the whole story about the firmware smells really like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

Please, prove me wrong. I would be happy.

Seventh Son · 09-15-2009, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanselda

Oh god. We are discussing in 18 pages for something that does not exist, yet.

Welcome to the Interwebz

EowynCarter · 09-15-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

One option would be to use their current programming $ to pay someone else (pocketbook? Netronix?) to produce a customized version of an existing product.

Oh please, no !
The way to go is SDK and open source !
Open source don't support drm Cybook firmware would be pretty cool.

Vesper · 09-15-2009, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanselda

Oh god. We are discussing in 18 pages for something that does not exist, yet. Any arguments or speculations are just vacuum without a real downloadable firmware file.

And the whole story about the firmware smells really like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

Please, prove me wrong. I would be happy.

But firmware exists! Some lucky b*blip*ds got their units flashed in July, I think, and we are waiting for aforementioned firmware to become available to the rest of us. In the meantime we are moaning and ranting around...

DrS

p.s. I don't give a damn about ePub firmware. Give me mobi one, pretty please? With cherry on top?

gerraldo · 09-15-2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

You can't judge something unless you have all the facts.

Yes, there was some serious screw up.

So I guess, you do have all the facts...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

I'll have to wait a bit for firmware, so what ? Not the end of the world.

Wait a bit?! A few weeks, 2 or 3 months OK... but over a year???

Heck, some of us would even be happy if they'd release the last v1.2 build (834) for download...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

And it seams yet another reader is in the making too.

Oh no... we're doomed!!!

EowynCarter · 09-15-2009, 08:57 AM

Who knows, it might help reaching the "we can hire one more dev" point.

09-15-2009, 06:50 AM	#265
Hanselda Enthusiast Posts: 42 Karma: 12 Join Date: Feb 2008 Device: CyBook, Sony PRS 600	Oh god. We are discussing in 18 pages for something that does not exist, yet. Any arguments or speculations are just vacuum without a real downloadable firmware file. And the whole story about the firmware smells really like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware Please, prove me wrong. I would be happy. Last edited by Hanselda; 09-15-2009 at 06:53 AM.

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09-14-2009, 07:24 PM	#259
roncri Enthusiast Posts: 44 Karma: 28 Join Date: Sep 2006	Actually, software isn't that hard to estimate, this is usually what happens. Dev: Going by the design spec we figure that it will take 30,000 man hours which will mean a release date of mid-December. Manager: To long, how can we shorten the release date to September? Dev: Either hire more devs or cut features "B" and "F". Manager: No budget to hire more devs. Cut B and F and we will plan on releasing in September. TIME GOES ON Manager: After looking over the competition we've decided we need to add B and F back in and we also have a new feature "K" we want to add but we still need to hit the September release date. Dev: Then I need more people, we can't make this date with the resources I have. Manager: I don't care about excuses, I want results At this point morale is in the toilet and several devs leave the team to look for work elsewhere. I actually had a job at a very large software company (makes an OS and is based in Redmond) where I got marked down on my review because my estimates were always longer than any other Dev on the team. I then pointed out that on the last project I was the ONLY dev to make all of their milestones. Didn't matter, I was still marked down as not being aggressive enough when it came to estimates. It really makes no sense to me.

09-15-2009, 12:00 AM	#260
Demented Connoisseur Posts: 66 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Baton Rouge Device: DR800SG, Nook, Cybook Original	I'm a programmer as well and that's exactly how it goes. I now work for a consulting firm so that I don't have to deal with it

09-15-2009, 04:38 AM	#262
billyad2000 Enthusiast Posts: 36 Karma: 2968 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Cybook Gen3	To be honest, while I love my Cybook to bits, but this new firmware is a bit of a joke. I am a programmer myself, and there is nothing in the new feature list that would take any real length of time to complete, the only major change is the parallel version containing Epub, and I cant see why even a single part time programmer would not have this completed after a year. Sometimes deadlines are not met, unexpected issues and bugs can crop up that can slow or halt progress, but not by this much. For some reason I find myself visualising Bookeen as a single person working from his garden shed, answering the phone, replying to the odd email, preparing orders, working on other projects, such as the opus, and when he gets a spare few minutes, he will have a look at the firmware or other apparently low priority tasks such as updating the blog and website. I am also disappointed about the fact that a working Mobipocket version of the firmware has been available for some time now, and despite the fact that all of Bookeens oldest Cybook customers may have benefited from this, they have not seen fit to release the firmware. Epub is all well and good, but if the Mobipocket firmware works then why not release it. It is strange how this has effected my thoughts of Bookeen, if they had never promised a firmware then I would never have had an issue, but from a marketing point of view this firmware has likely done more damage than if they had not bothered at all. To give a customer an expectation of something, then keep delaying it is just taking away from a great product. "Expectation postponed is making the heart sick" (Proverbs 13:12)

09-15-2009, 06:02 AM	#264
emellaich Wizard Posts: 1,101 Karma: 4388403 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Palm>Ebookman>IPaq>Axim>Cybook>Kndl2>IPAD>Kndl3SO>Voyager>Oasis	It may not have been quite so bad, but we went through something similar on the last firmware upgrade. For me, these problems are always management problems, not programmer's. Why, because it's management's job to fix it. 1) Is it a resource problem? Hire more. Yes, adding more people to a late project can make it later, but this has been an ongoing problem over the last couple of years. 2) Is it a skill problem? Hire the appropriate skills, and possibly fire inappropriate ones. If you can't find the skills locally, then outsource. It is possible that it is a resource issue. Bookeen may be too small to justify sufficient resources. If this is true they have a major issue. The problem is that they are competing against quite a few deep pocket competitors: Sony and eventually Amazon, Samsung, Fujitsu, ASUS, etcetera. As a first entrant the small scale approach worked fine, but if they can't scale up they need to either adapt or die. One option would be to use their current programming $ to pay someone else (pocketbook? Netronix?) to produce a customized version of an existing product.

09-15-2009, 08:57 AM	#270
EowynCarter Wizard Posts: 4,337 Karma: 4000000 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Paris Device: Cybooks; Sony PRS-T1	Who knows, it might help reaching the "we can hire one more dev" point.