First Sony Reader Update Available!

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by mikem

I know nothing about to internals of the PDF format (its made of bits right ) - I thought there was some separation between layout and content?

Hardly. PDF is all about layout. Which is why Adobe is also embracing the OEB format, which is more suitable for reflowable content.

[astra]

Originally Posted by negorv

(4) Multi-language support is bad idea, since citizens of "OTR" countries has no respect to an INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY - they want just OUR READER, but not gonna pay for the BOOKS.

Sorry for being dense but what is OTR?

[thebeaglebeagle]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

You don't even need the SD card.
64M, well in my case it has 96M, is more than enough to accomodate many books. Do you read more than 1 book at time? When you go somewhere, do you bring with yourself 1/10 of the 7000 books you have got on SD?

Good points... but I have these extended fantasies of carrying my ENTIRE LIBRARY with me on a single device. If I'm on the bus and I want to read the first chapter of Moby Dick (pure genius, BTW), I'd have it. Or if I was having a poetry discussion and suddenly remembered some Mary Oliver poem that I wanted to share, boom, I'd have it.

I guess I want my ebook to replace my non-e-books, fully and completely, and for that I need a whole bunch of gigabytes, and faster read/write times, and better folder/browsing tools. It doesn't have to be a LOT better, but there are a couple of simple features that I really look forward to.

Anyway, we forum-types love to gripe about what the eReader doesn't have... but we wouldn't be here griping if we didn't already really love what the device is already doing for us.

[astra]

I am sure that in 2-4 years you will have the device you want to. Technology advances with a speed of light. So, keep your fingers crossed

[thebeaglebeagle]

Originally Posted by NatCh

It's certainly not Sony's fault that there is no standard format for electronic books -- there is no such format. If such a format existed and they were still selling their LRF books, then they ought to be scourged and hung out to dry, but that's not what they're doing. And no, I don't consider PDF to be a standard format for e-books. It's a standard format for distributing documents electronically while preserving their page layouts. For it to be any kind of e-book format, it would need to support text re-flow without a bunch of acrobatics (you should pardon the pun), so that the files could be read on screens that are not, themselves, A4 in size. Of course, if it did that, it wouldn't be preserving the page layout, so it wouldn't be what PDF is meant to be.

Great points about PDF... ultimately, PDFs are supposed to preserve page layout, so the PDF can never be the defacto standard... unless it changes. Adobe could create some kind of super-PDF that contained rules for how to reflow/reformat for different sizes... but I'm not holding my breath. My big collections of PDFs will NEVER work nicely on my current Sony Reader device, no matter what magical software/firmware update they develop. Never.

Until my mystical super PDFs come along, we've got TXT, RTF, or HTML. Those are still the only book formats I am interested in collecting... I have a few thousand, so far, and hope to replace 80% of my paper library soon. I guess RTFD does what we want reader devices to do, but RTFD isn't widely accepted. It is really odd to think that HTML/XML is the only existing book format that might eventually meet our needs.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by NatCh

TIt's not because they think everyone outside the U.S. is an intellectual property thief -- this is Sony we're talking about:

You are right. Sony doesn't think everyone outside USA is thief and pirate. They think that EVERYONE, *especialy* people in the USA is pirate -- this is Sony we're talking about: the company that distribured rootkit on their musical CDs. The rootkit messes up your computer in a dozen different ways, because you might want to copy a song ...

[astra]

Originally Posted by thebeaglebeagle

Great points about PDF... ultimately, PDFs are supposed to preserve page layout, so the PDF can never be the defacto standard... unless it changes. Adobe could create some kind of super-PDF that contained rules for how to reflow/reformat for different sizes... but I'm not holding my breath. My big collections of PDFs will NEVER work nicely on my current Sony Reader device, no matter what magical software/firmware update they develop. Never.

Then Sony should remove PDF as supported format from their specs. Otherwise it is unfair/false statement for a potential buyer.

[jæd]

Originally Posted by thebeaglebeagle

My big collections of PDFs will NEVER work nicely on my current Sony Reader device, no matter what magical software/firmware update they develop. Never.

What if they implemented zooming/panning...?

[TadW]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

Then Sony should remove PDF as supported format from their specs. Otherwise it is unfair/false statement for a potential buyer.

You are not serious, are you? I mean, after all these weeks and months we've spent to figure out the optimal settings to generate pretty PDF documents for the Reader

[JHeavner]

Um, I'm not exactly who said what and when but I have to agree that better organization which facilitates easier storage of more material would be great. Right now I use my reader for almost 100% fiction because that's what it does well but I've also realized that my 2 GB card is almost useless. The ability to search text would be an amazing feature. I would even settle for a "smart" index that would let me jump to certain things. I've tried putting reference docs and various work files on it and it just doesn't work.

In my opinion, the killer product in this category is the replacement textbook, reference manual, work file system. Paperback and light and it's easy to carry a couple with me. A shelf full of reference material is heavy and not practical for travel. I realize that's not what this device is and I'm not trying to say that's what it should become.

I'm kinda surprised at the intolerance in this thread. People have been quick to condemn others with the "that's not what it was meant for" mantra. Just because one disagrees with another person's wants or opinions doesn't make one right and the other wrong.

[Bob Russell]

It's interesting how it can be such a heated topic about what a device should be, especially one like an e-book reader which could be anything from a simple text reading device to a full fledged computer.

I think we all agree that the Reader should not try to be too much or do too much. And that it's not practical for it to do everything. Sony couldn't devote that many resources to updates anyway, I'm sure.

So given a very limited set of features, the obvious goal is to make it great for reading books. Sony has done a great job with that for a first device, I think, even if we wish some things were different.

The real challenge is picking what additional features would make sense. Even from the customer side, not taking into account all the development issues. Personally, while I think the book analogy is very useful to keep focus, I think that it's not a reason to not choose other features that are universally useful. It's the balance that is really tricky!

Like being able to delete a file from the Reader itself. I'd love that. But is it really analagous to a paper book? Not really. And it's not even so critical for Windows users as you can do it when you dock. So how high on the list does it go? I'd put it near number one near hierarchical book listings and better pdf viewing, but I'm sure that if we took everyone's opinions into account it would fall down much lower.

The great thing is that this update doesn't seem to have had any horrible problems. I'm pretty happy about that in itself!

It will be extremely interesting to see if there are future updates, and what Sony can manage to put into them.

[scotty1024]

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

So given a very limited set of features, the obvious goal is to make it great for reading books. Sony has done a great job with that for a first device, I think, even if we wish some things were different.

The real challenge is picking what additional features would make sense. Even from the customer side, not taking into account all the development issues. Personally, while I think the book analogy is very useful to keep focus, I think that it's not a reason to not choose other features that are universally useful. It's the balance that is really tricky!

Like being able to delete a file from the Reader itself. I'd love that. But is it really analagous to a paper book? Not really. And it's not even so critical for Windows users as you can do it when you dock. So how high on the list does it go? I'd put it near number one near hierarchical book listings and better pdf viewing, but I'm sure that if we took everyone's opinions into account it would fall down much lower.

I'd agree with you Bob if the PRS500 was indeed a "first device", but it isn't.

The Sony Librie had many of the features most people have been drubbing the Reader for not supplying. You could for example delete files, you could move files from card to internal and from internal to card. You had a keyboard for searching and renaming. I liked the scroll wheel and miss it.

The issues with lots of ebooks existed on the Librie and Sony has done nothing to address those issues with the Reader. It is in fact as if they shot all the Librie developers and gave the hardware plans to the Reader team to work from.

What astonishes me with this update is that they didn't fix the broken PDF rendering. The fix for the moth eaten text is very simple and I don't understand why Sony didn't implement it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by astra_lestat

Then Sony should remove PDF as supported format from their specs. Otherwise it is unfair/false statement for a potential buyer.

With respect, I disagree.

You cannot use a 6" screen to display an A4 document properly; that's not Sony's fault, but simple "common sense". PDFs created for the Sony's screen size - eg the Reader Manual - displayed in a perfectly acceptable manner.

Again, the fact the PDFs can't sensibly be "re-flowed" is not Sony's fault - it's inherent in the format.

PDF is a terrible format for eBooks. That's not what it was designed for, and not what it's good for.

[yvanleterrible]

PDF can reflow, the drawback is that it does at command(on a computer), not automatically. (like needed on the reader)

[orcinus]

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

Like being able to delete a file from the Reader itself. I'd love that. But is it really analagous to a paper book? Not really.

Why would it have to be in the first place?
Projecting the features of a plain, paper book on the Reader makes just as little sense as wanting it to be a fully fledged PIM/handheld.

The Sony Reader is not a PDA, but, just as well, isn't a book.
While it makes no sense to cram PIM features into it from an average-joe-consumer point of view, it makes no sense to keep comparing it to a feature set of an average paper back either (especially not if you're doing that just to justify it's shortcomings). It should be an evolution of a book, not it's carbon-copy.

So, while features like calendars, adress books, games etc. get a no from me, although i'm a geeky, convergence crazed gadget freak, features like zooming, panning, deleting, font customization, organizing content, searching, upgradeability etc. get a big thumbsup.

No, ordinary book doesn't do those, but this is not an and should not be an ordinary book! If you keep rationalizing things like that, PRS-500 will end up with depth (thickness) as it's only advantage over ye olde paper booke.

Doesn't that sound logical?