Seriously thoughtful American Health Care

[krisk]

you are making very blanket statements about an industry that does indeed have issues, but that is not true for everything. I am happy for you to go on back to Canada and accept their health care

[griffonwing]

I am all for free health coverage, even if it's paid for by taxes of the people. However, it should be a STATE health-care system, not a FEDERAL one.

[krisk]

unfortunately I think we have a far too mobile population to be able to have a state run system. I'm all for a smaller fed, but there are some things that just won't work.

[Angst]

http://tauntermedia.com/2009/07/28/unconscionable-math/

the numbers are very specific:

"the top 1%, the folks with over $35,000 of annual claims who could never be profitable for the carrier – then the probability of having your policy torn up given a massively expensive condition is pushing 50%. One in two."

Originally Posted by krisk

you are making very blanket statements about an industry that does indeed have issues, but that is not true for everything. I am happy for you to go on back to Canada and accept their health care

[krisk]

yeah, I can fish around for streamlined data to fit any argument I have as well

[Angst]

Originally Posted by krisk

yeah, I can fish around for streamlined data to fit any argument I have as well

It's fairly common actually. Here's an article covering cancellations by a major insurer (Blue Cross). The data isn't massaged, it is based on sworn testimony before congress.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun...s/fi-rescind17

"WellPoint's Blue Cross of California subsidiary and two other insurers saved more than $300 million in medical claims by canceling more than 20,000 sick policyholders over a five-year period"

Do the math: $300,000,000/20,000 = $15,000 saved per cancellation.

[krisk]

I'm not saying our system is great, it's not it is broken. but saying with carte blanc that if you exceed certain amounts or have pre existing conditions, you get canceled is wrong.

it's been proven that the Candian system sucks, and no, I'm not providing links, I have a job, go to ohhhhh lets see, a real news source... npr.org and do a search on all of the Canadian health care stories they have done

[Angst]

From a Harvard study, 750,000 bankruptcies caused by medical bills, 3/4th of which had medical coverage.

"Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001, according to a study published by the journal Health Affairs.

The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.

Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance. More than three-quarters were insured at the start of the bankrupting illness. However, 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy."

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...tcy_study.html

Originally Posted by krisk

it's been proven that the Candian system sucks

That must be why 90% of Canadians prefer the Canadian health system over the US health care system.

[krisk]

*yawn*

[Angst]

I would like to hear more about the German health care system. As I understand it, it is privately run, albeit with heavy government regulation.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by griffonwing

I am all for free health coverage, even if it's paid for by taxes of the people. However, it should be a STATE health-care system, not a FEDERAL one.

I could possibly accept that, if the feds would stay out of other legal issues that don't concern them--marriage, drug use, medical procedures, education...

Remove *all* federal oversight, other than a basic "if it's legal in the state it was done in, it's okay with us; if it's not legal in the state it was done in, we'll help extradite," and I'd be willing to consider medical insurance that vanishes when people visit their aunt who lives in the next state, because that state doesn't allow [condition] to be treated in its hospitals.

[krisk]

seriously, give it a look. very very impressive. given that EVERYONE!!!! docs, patients, paperpushers, were happy with it... says a lot! (this is the French system)

[Kostas]

Originally Posted by Angst

I would like to hear more about the German health care system. As I understand it, it is privately run...

Sure? Never heard that before...
Actually I've never heard of a privately run health care system in any EU country.
But I could be wrong. Would like to hear more about that too...

[Kostas]

Originally Posted by krisk

seriously, give it a look. very very impressive. given that EVERYONE!!!! docs, patients, paperpushers, were happy with it... says a lot! (this is the French system)

Very interesting (even for someone who has lived several years in France).
Yeah, emergency treatment in the street (or even the metro) is something that you typically see in France.

[Angst]

Originally Posted by Kostas

Sure? Never heard that before...
Actually I've never heard of a privately run health care system in any EU country.
But I could be wrong. Would like to hear more about that too...

I may have been wrong. It seems there is still a state component to health insurance:
"With the exception of about 2 million permanent civil servants, and the self-employed, Germans who earn below Euro 3,862 gross salary per month in 2004 must join one of the 300 statutory sickness funds. Those above the mandatory insurance threshold may opt out of the state system and buy private insurance instead but many opt to remain in the state system - 10 per cent of the population are voluntarily insured."

More at: http://www.civitas.org.uk/pubs/bb3Germany.php