Declaration of Independence

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by kazbates

You're splitting hairs and trying to justify their behavior. I could say the same thing about my chair analogy. I probably wouldn't have bought the chair, so taking it is okay. I know that once I've sat on the chair for awhile and find out that it's the perfect resting place for my tushy, I will more than likely send the purchase price to the store. I'm sorry, I just can't buy that (pun intended ).

Would it be ok to go home and make a copy of the chair?

[PKFFW]

Originally Posted by Fanas

1. Symbolic price of 1$ would be a nice addition for the authors. As long as no one takes a cut of that. Because now, possibly up to 80% of your money doesn't go to the author, but rather to some middle-men.

That's assuming the author wants to do all the work of editing, proofing, formatting, marketing etc etc etc involved in the book.

If they don't want to do all that, or can't, then they would have to pay others to do it.(generally speaking).

Further, if they do it all themselves it is very very likely their work will actually receive less of an audience because they are necessarily less skilled at all of that, particularly the marketing side of things. This lesser audience will very likely result in less money. That's life I suppose but it does make the whole "If I pay a pittance but it all goes to the author he/she will actually make more money" argument seem a little less valid.

Originally Posted by Fanas

2. If it was 1$, or even up to 3$, the price would be so low that piracy would almost completely disappear. Why bother looking for books, downloading from some garbage-level sources, if the real deal is so cheap. Anyone with a e-book reader could afford to purchase books. Obviously readers will become cheaper with time too.

I agree that if prices were lower there would likely be less piracy. If prices were $0 there would be even less piracy still! So what?

I'm all for reasonably priced ebooks. What I am against is the idea that all books must be made available in ebook form for $0 or some "symbolic" price.

Originally Posted by Fanas

3. There are still book collectors. Paper book is not only a nice interior element, but it also got style. Smell alone elevates a fresh book above e-book. So paper book would still keep it's price and possibly even become more valuable.

That's really got nothing to do with ebooks and the discussion at hand.

Originally Posted by Fanas

4. Friendly advice to publishers. Instead of trying to criminalize people, try adapting. Many people pirate because of money shortage, but there is also another reason. Movies/games/music/books, you name it everything is easier to access via illegal sources. If I wanted to purchase a movie, first problem I would encounter would be various geographical issues. Then of course shipping would cost extra money and time. After that I would obviously need to buy bluray player, because I got used to HDTV so much I could not possibly consider watching DVD quality movies. While I can do that with my laptop and 10$ costing hdmi cable, I wouldn't be able to watch it from bluray disk. When all those problems arise it's not hard to understand that money isn't the only reason people pirate.

I agree publishers should adapt. However, with attitudes like yours and the OP's as evidenced here, it is little wonder to me that they do not appear to be willing to do so.

Cheers,
PKFFW

[doreenjoy]

Yet another thread posted in "News and Commentary" that really belongs in the Lounge, IMO.

[bill the smith]

Is there anybody who can honestly say that:
(1) they have never downloaded an "illegal" book; or
(2) they have never read an illegal book?
Let's be real about this: we all read illegal books at one time or another.

[doreenjoy]

Originally Posted by bill the smith

Is there anybody who can honestly say that:
(1) they have never downloaded an "illegal" book; or
(2) they have never read an illegal book?
Let's be real about this: we all read illegal books at one time or another.

Yes, I can honestly say that. But it's clear from your last line that you'll never believe me.

[bill the smith]

And another thing.
If I buy the latest novel at the bookshop, what do I buy?
Do I own the paper? Obviously I do not own the story. So how do I possess the story? Am I just licenced to read it? If so, what are the terms and conditions of the licence? Can I lend it to my wife to read or is this a breach of the conditions and thus piracy?
So ...

It would seem fairly obvious that I can legally lend a book.
If (instead) I buy and download the electronic version of the book, can I "lend" that to my wife to read? Are we both committing piracy?
Can I "lend" it to all my friends here at MR?
I just don't understand.

[bill the smith]

@doreenjoy
I believe you.
But I think it is sad.
Just a personal view.

[K-Thom]

Books have a great advantage over eBooks:

The medium (paper, in this case) always comes along with the text. So you will always have as much "analog reading devices" as you have texts. What you are lending to another person is this "analog reading devices", because this is the one you bought, not the content.
Conveniently enough they can't be divided, so it doesn't really matter. But it's a matter of perception and understanding to comprehend this concept.

People - like you - have to understand that they always have paid for the media, never for the content. You buy the book, not the text. You buy the CD, not the game, software or music. You buy the DVD or Blueray Disc, not the movie.
Neither the game, the software, the music nor the movie are free for you to do as you please. So why should eBooks be?

And all this "knowledge" (sorry, most of the time we are talking about entertainment, right? So, at least be honest and do't try to argue with high ideals, will you?) is free. It just isn't for free.

[bill the smith]

@K-Thom
Thanks for your response.
Why is it that the defenders of copright and censorship always make rude and discourteous attacks.
What do you mean by saying "People - like you"?
You have no idea what sort of a person I am.
Your reponse is vey confused.
You fail to answer my fundamental question: can I lend my ebook to someone else?
I would appreciate less abuse and more information.

[K-Thom]

Why is it that the defenders of copright and censorship always make rude and discourteous attacks.

Maybe because contestants of copyright carelessely argue with censorship and always state rude and discourteous demands?

What do you mean by saying "People - like you"?

People who twist words to fit their needs, or better, their convenience.

You have no idea what sort of a person I am.

No, but I'm getting the picture.

Your reponse is vey confused.

As I said it's a matter of perception and understanding to comprehend the concept.

You fail to answer my fundamental question: can I lend my ebook to someone else?

Depends on your country's law. In general I don't see why cou can't lend your reading device with the novel to someone else. Since you just lend it it will be returned to you as a book would be.

I would appreciate less abuse and more information.

So would I. At least something we agree on.

[doreenjoy]

Editing out my comment. Not worth the time.

[bill the smith]

@K-Thom
OK, despite your personal attacks on me, we may be able to have a proper discussion.
I know I can lend my actual physical ebook reader.
That is not waht I was asking.
Let me be more specific.
Can I lend my brother the computer file called anybook.lrf for him to read on his computer or ebook on condition that he deletes it after he has read it?

[KarenH]

I'm jumping into this late, but my understanding is it would be legal to loan an ebook to someone else if it's the original - i.e. if you do not copy it, but actually delete it from your computer/ereader while the other person has it, and they remove it from their computer if/when you get it back. Comparing it to paper books, you can give them the book to read, but you can't photocopy the pages and give them the copies.

[K-Thom]

Really depends on your country's law.

In Germany it is allowed to photocopy a book and not just lend but give away this copy to somebody else. As long as it is a relative or a close friend and you don't hand out copies to more than some seven people.

[kazbates]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Would it be ok to go home and make a copy of the chair?

Since I thought your post was very funny I was going to flippantly respond, "Sure, knock yourself out!", but, thinking about it, I'm just not sure. There might be some law stating that you cannot take a picture without permission. It would seem silly to me, but who knows!?!? This whole DRM thing is confusing, but I do know it is wrong to knowingly pirate a book (or ebook) whether you like the laws or not.

But, Sparrow, I did get a BIG chuckle out of your post. Thanks.