A silly question: what is the advantage of ePub for a reader? - Page 2

Moejoe · 08-11-2009, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andybaby

How? what program?

Sigil right here at MR https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=203

wodin · 08-12-2009, 12:09 AM

One HUGE disadvantage that I can see is that to my knowledge no one has succeeded in cracking the DRM yet, unlike MobiPocket.

I buy ALL of my DRM books in Mobi format, strip the DRM and convert them to whatever format I need.

Moejoe · 08-12-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

One HUGE disadvantage that I can see is that to my knowledge no one has succeeded in cracking the DRM yet, unlike MobiPocket.

I buy ALL of my DRM books in Mobi format, strip the DRM and convert them to whatever format I need.

Adobe's Adept for ePub and PDF were cracked awhile back

dmikov · 08-12-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

IMO, EPUB is a little more than just another format, which will only serve to further confuse the average consumer.

Yes, it does a few things better than mobi, etc., but ultimately it is still inadequate to faithfully represent complex layouts.

I tried to be more open-minded, but after due consideration, I now wish all of these formats would die a quiet death, before they totally turn off the public from ebooks.

PDF is by far the most popular current format, on screen, as well as web, and it can represent the most complex layout faithfully. If I have, say a Vogue Magazine file, I can read it today on something like an iRex (in grayscale), on my Mac laptop, on my Windows HTPC, or on my iMac.

Oh, and when full color, large screen e-readers show up a couple of years from now, that PDF file most likely will still be readable, in its full color glory, on them.

P.S. For the "plain-text" subscribers, text PDFs can now reflow on miniature screens, or if unhappy with that, why not just use plain old text...?

PDF is not an e-book format, it's typesetting prowess does nothing for the plethora of different screen sizes and screen types. I am not going to theoritise on it, just look how many bad pdf viewer implementation are in the current e-books. You think it's coincidence?

I personally like fb2, same markup idea only you know where your titles or epigraphs are instead of you knowing where your font +1 bold are. The viewer will decide how to display them.

But out of mobi vs epub I would take epub at least it's editable with any text editor.

Sonist · 08-12-2009, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmikov

PDF is not an e-book format, it's typesetting prowess does nothing for the plethora of different screen sizes and screen types. I am not going to theoritise on it, just look how many bad pdf viewer implementation are in the current e-books. You think it's coincidence?....

Oh. right..., silly me, just didn't realize that all computer monitors are all the same size..., 'cause somehow some look different to me. I guess that's why PDF is the most popular format for distributing all kinds of publications, to be viewed on screen.

The fact that current implementation in many ereaders sucks (DR1000 excepted,) doesn't mean the format is bad. As bigger screen come in, and as processing power increases, and color comes in, PDFs will look just fine on even cheap ereaders.

But even before color, there is a crop of large screens coming up, and presumably most will sport decent PDF support. And that will be the beginning of the end for the alternate formats, IMO.

I personally can't wait to be able to read a nicely typeset book on a large e-ink screen.

ahi · 08-12-2009, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmikov

PDF is not an e-book format, it's typesetting prowess does nothing for the plethora of different screen sizes and screen types.

PDF is the only eBook format. All the rest are just documents.

- Ahi

=X= · 08-12-2009, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Hi,

I've listened so wonderful words about words that I would like to know which is the real advantage for a common reader person. I'm not talking about standard (I know html history and other standard, and I work with theoretical standards, so please, don't go there). No DRM is not a real reason, because it doesn't depend on format. So, which is its advantage over other formats? For a reader, remember, not a techie.

With LIT
You can have TTS
HTML 4.0 formating standards
Annotations
BookMarks
Portable reader.
Reliable standard
Book will can be read on any device that supports LIT.
Margin Control
Dictionary Support

MOBI
Annotations
Bookmarks
Synchronization with any mobipocket device
Large library
MobiCreator/MobiReader - Awesome tools for creating eBooks and reading eBooks
A mobi eBook will work on any Mobipocket device.
Justify,
Margin control
Dictionary Support
TTS ( if you have an kindle)
Great images support on Mobipocket clients can zoom/pan images.
HTML 3.0 format

ePUB
Poorly spec out file format (for interpreters). Possibility than a perfectly valid ePUB will not work on anther ePUB device.
DRM is not standardized so you can have so DRM X won't work with DRM Y
No Dictionary support
No Annotation
Bookmarks
No Margin control
HTML 4.0 format standard. Same as LIT
Page counter on side, overlaps with text

While people have hailed ePUB superior format, I'll be honest I can't tell the difference. The format looks the same. Walcarft even did a study with the HOBBIT and I think he too came to the same conclusion. I think the only format that was bad was eReader.

Also most folks who tout the suppirior formating of ePUB also say they only read chapter books

go figure.

I tend to read lots of books with pictures, charts, tables, and graphs. Mobipocket and PDF tend to be far better than the rest.

=X=

toomanybooks · 08-12-2009, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I'd prefer text if it allowed minimal markup: Bold, italic, page breaks, centered text. (I love eReader. I wish the dedicated ebook devices supported it.)

ePub's real advantage for the non-techie is its transferability--it's readable on many devices, and because it's an open-source format (a techie plus), it's likely to continue to be supported in the future.

Its editability is rather a techie plus, but it's a different kind of techie plus than most of the other ones; there are plenty of people who can edit HTML files but are lost in the morass of ebook format types and device compatibility issues.

As a non-tech person the opposite is true for me. I can open a text file in word and do rudimentary editing because I am so familiar with word. I have figured out what word settings will make the most readable rtf file.To me epub is mysterious file that I put on my reader and hope looks nice because I don't comprehend all these special features it supposedly has.

jgray · 08-12-2009, 03:39 AM

As much as I don't like a lot of things that Microsoft does, I do think it is a shame that they did not join the IDPF and participate in the creation of epub. Although I think LIT is an almost dead format, it still has some very nice features. In particular, the dictionary and annotation support, mentioned by =X=.

There is also something to be said for being a bit more definitive about how reading devices will display things. The epub specification leaves too many things "optional", which is why we already have issues with different ereaders.

Another feature of LIT that would have been nice to have in epub is the compression scheme that Microsoft used. It is designed for on the fly decompression, which is better suited to ereaders than ZIP is.

As I said, it's a shame that Microsoft did not want to play nice with the other kids. We all would have benefited from a better epub standard. I still like LIT when I have to buy an ebook, due to the ease of removing the DRM. But it is such a niche format now that I don't see it surviving in the long run.

Hellmark · 08-12-2009, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barcey

Until DRM is removed from the equation there isn't a real advantage to the end user. It's just another proprietary format.

I give credit to Amazon for at least being honest about using a proprietary format. Adobe is behaving worse by pretending to be using an open standard but they're just using DRM to make it proprietary. If reading ePub means that I'm stuck reading on Adobe Digital Editions there's no advantage. When the end user is able to select the reader software with the features of their choice then ePub will matter.

There are many DRM free epubs out there. Epub, without DRM, is not a propietary format. I have dozens of books in epub format, and only one with DRM.

Moejoe · 08-12-2009, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

There are many DRM free epubs out there. Epub, without DRM, is not a propietary format. I have dozens of books in epub format, and only one with DRM.

I have ONLY ePub in my library. And any that have had DRM, I've removed

K-Thom · 08-12-2009, 06:47 AM

Quote:

I guess that's why PDF is the most popular format for distributing all kinds of publications, to be viewed on screen.

Sure, PDF was the first widespread digital format with layout and images when there were only desktop screens available, no dedicated reading devices. But that was then.

PDF is popular because it gets created during the printing process anyway in most cases by DTP. Thus it's convenient for publishers: "eBooks formats? What for? We already have the PDF!"

Readers and publishers are used to PDF. That doesn't tell you anything about its actual popularity, since most people are used to taxes, too ...

Terisa de morgan · 08-12-2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barcey

I give credit to Amazon for at least being honest about using a proprietary format. Adobe is behaving worse by pretending to be using an open standard but they're just using DRM to make it proprietary. If reading ePub means that I'm stuck reading on Adobe Digital Editions there's no advantage. When the end user is able to select the reader software with the features of their choice then ePub will matter.

I agree with you. For a lot of people, Amazon is the big brother, for me Adobe is (you don't know the awful limits if you haven't had to buy an ADOBE PDF protected e-book).

Terisa de morgan · 08-12-2009, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgray

There is also something to be said for being a bit more definitive about how reading devices will display things. The epub specification leaves too many things "optional", which is why we already have issues with different ereaders.

Bye, ePub. I can't trust on that.

K-Thom · 08-12-2009, 08:06 AM

Worst case scenario would be a repetition of Linux, with different distributions, all slightly altered ...

Should Adobe eve assume, that there is some commercial potential in an "Adobe epub distribution", they will create one. And it will be proprietary. Same goes for Apple.
And all major eBook shops then usually will resort on those proprietary epub files, not on any open standard(s).
Which may still be compatible. May ...

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08-12-2009, 12:09 AM	#17
wodin Illiterate Posts: 10,279 Karma: 37848716 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Sandwich Isles Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro	One HUGE disadvantage that I can see is that to my knowledge no one has succeeded in cracking the DRM yet, unlike MobiPocket. I buy ALL of my DRM books in Mobi format, strip the DRM and convert them to whatever format I need.

08-12-2009, 03:39 AM	#24
jgray Fanatic Posts: 554 Karma: 2928497 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Clara 2E & Sage	As much as I don't like a lot of things that Microsoft does, I do think it is a shame that they did not join the IDPF and participate in the creation of epub. Although I think LIT is an almost dead format, it still has some very nice features. In particular, the dictionary and annotation support, mentioned by =X=. There is also something to be said for being a bit more definitive about how reading devices will display things. The epub specification leaves too many things "optional", which is why we already have issues with different ereaders. Another feature of LIT that would have been nice to have in epub is the compression scheme that Microsoft used. It is designed for on the fly decompression, which is better suited to ereaders than ZIP is. As I said, it's a shame that Microsoft did not want to play nice with the other kids. We all would have benefited from a better epub standard. I still like LIT when I have to buy an ebook, due to the ease of removing the DRM. But it is such a niche format now that I don't see it surviving in the long run.

08-12-2009, 08:06 AM	#30
K-Thom The one and only Posts: 3,302 Karma: 535819 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Berlin, Germany Device: yup!	Worst case scenario would be a repetition of Linux, with different distributions, all slightly altered ... Should Adobe eve assume, that there is some commercial potential in an "Adobe epub distribution", they will create one. And it will be proprietary. Same goes for Apple. And all major eBook shops then usually will resort on those proprietary epub files, not on any open standard(s). Which may still be compatible. May ...