R.I.P. The English Novel 1485 - 2009

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Bread and circuses, mate. That's what the plebs wanted 2000 years ago, and it's what they want today.

Does it annoy you though? Aren't you angry about it? Am I the only one shouting into the darkness for some light (I refuse to believe this)?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Does it annoy you though? Aren't you angry about it? Am I the only one shouting into the darkness for some light (I refuse to believe this)?

I personally don't care much about the people that demand nothing from life but bread and circuses.

It's when the entertainment media provide nothing but bread and circuses that I get upset. And fortunately, there is still some quality out there. You just gotta dig past a lot of bread to find it.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

I'm not talking about 'great' literature, I'm talking about 'real' literature. I'm talking about fiction written by individuals with something to say, with a point of view and an outlook on life.

Is the real question why those writers are incapable of writing stuff people want to read?
If Katie Price is outperforming them they seriously need to pull their socks up!

[vivaldirules]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Hmm... maybe I should get a set of those...

Yeah, maybe it would help, Steve. And thanks for the recommendation, Moejoe. I had never heard nor, uh, seen Katie whatshername before but I'm definitely going to look at her. So where is the porno section of the Upload section at MobileRead? I don't see it.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Is the real question why those writers are incapable of writing stuff people want to read?
If Katie Price is outperforming them they seriously need to pull their socks up!

Ooch! My toes are itching...

[vivaldirules]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Is the real question why those writers are incapable of writing stuff people want to read?
If Katie Price is outperforming them they seriously need to pull their socks up!

I just checked some photos of the woman on the web and I don't believe she wears socks.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Is the real question why those writers are incapable of writing stuff people want to read?
If Katie Price is outperforming them they seriously need to pull their socks up!

I never saw it that way. All I need to do now is remove three quarters of my brain, have implants, sleep with anything that will walk, unlearn how to speak, dye my skin an orange colour, then get someone else to write my books for me and I'll measure up to Katie Price's literature. Fantastic!

Wow, if only Orwell and Steinbeck had known this secret earlier on, they could have saved a whole lot of time writing from their hearts and having something to say.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Does it annoy you though? Aren't you angry about it? Am I the only one shouting into the darkness for some light (I refuse to believe this)?

Honest answer? No, it doesn't annoy me. Celebrity ghost-written books and the latest diet craze are what keep bookshops in business, and allow us to buy the good books, too. If publishers didn't publish the popular crap, they wouldn't be able to stay in business to publish the "real" books.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

I never saw it that way. All I need to do now is remove three quarters of my brain, have implants, sleep with anything that will walk, unlearn how to speak, dye my skin an orange colour, then get someone else to write my books for me and I'll measure up to Katie Price's literature. Fantastic!

Wow, if only Orwell and Steinbeck had known this secret earlier on, they could have saved a whole lot of time writing from their hearts and having something to say.

Ok, you're frustrated - but it sounds like you're saying it's all the readers' fault because we don't measure up to your exacting standards.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Honest answer? No, it doesn't annoy me. Celebrity ghost-written books and the latest diet craze are what keep bookshops in business, and allow us to buy the good books, too. If publishers didn't publish the popular crap, they wouldn't be able to stay in business to publish the "real" books.

So we just give in? We just allow this shit to keep happening because its happened before? We condition generation upon generation to this mind-washing, idiotic bullshit because it 'sells', because its what 'the market wants' and as a knock-on effect a few 'good' books are actually produced.

No.

We can't continue to let our culture spiral down into this morass of shit for much longer. We must be angry, as readers, as educators, as human beings for God's sake. We can't stand idly by when more people read the works of Jordan than they do Dylan Thomas.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Ok, you're frustrated - but it sounds like you're saying it's all the readers' fault because we don't measure up to your exacting standards.

Exacting standards? What, you mean, not being a drooling idiot? How exacting is that? Christ, if you want to read trash, go ahead and read trash, that's up to you. All I'm asking is that if you read trash at least read trash that's written by its own author and not just because some braindead bimbo celebrity who didn't even write the trash in the first place.

[HarryT]

Sorry, Moejoe, but I can't agree with you. There's a market for "great literature" and "mass entertainment". Don't you think it's a little bit "elitist" to tell people what they "should" enjoy reading? Heck, I'm just glad that people are reading.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Hmm... maybe I should get a set of those...

There you go, Steve:

http://www.onlinejokeshop.co.uk/Over...tic_boobs.html

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sorry, Moejoe, but I can't agree with you. There's a market for "great literature" and "mass entertainment". Don't you think it's a little bit "elitist" to tell people what they "should" enjoy reading? Heck, I'm just glad that people are reading.

Elitist to expect good fiction? When did it become elitist to want the best from literature, whatever that literature my be - detective fiction, fantasy, literary? When did it become elitist to want honest from the creators of that fiction?

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Exacting standards? What, you mean, not being a drooling idiot? How exacting is that? Christ, if you want to read trash, go ahead and read trash, that's up to you. All I'm asking is that if you read trash at least read trash that's written by its own author and not just because some braindead bimbo celebrity who didn't even write the trash in the first place.

For most people, it's not an either/or proposition - they read a mix of high-brow and low-brow stuff. There is no need for them to justify their choices to anybody else, or to be judged on that basis either.