Astak representative sales pitches

[Alexander Turcic]

Musicman, you are missing the point. As I said before - we do appreciate having on board a representative of a company that sells e-book devices. This thread has been full of information, some of it hands-on, that can be considered quite useful to a forum visitor. Nobody disagrees. The problem began only more recently when we felt that Robert's postings degraded from professional communication to relentless advertising. We contacted Robert to share our concerns, but he didn't reply.

It would make my day if this thread would go back to the kind of discussions we have seen before, without Robert constantly trying to lure users into ordering his products. It would show professional respect to leave the final decision making to the user.

[Boston]

I haven't read the entire thread, but was suprised to see the topic come up at this time unless it is competitor bashing (was it?).

In an Astak thread/discussion, Robertb promoting his company's product didn't bother me at all so much as it has other non-Astak threads when all of a sudden in the middle of a totally non-astek discussion there is a big plug suddenly dropped without contributing to the particular topic...making it feel like an unsolicited "pop-up" add.

That being said, I find his posts informative, even if overenthusiastic, when discussing Astak readers. I even felt bad when he was criticized for announcing a preliminary price that was slightly lower than actual retail. Personally, I'd rather have the best information available at that time than none at all. Perhaps vendors just need to be more careful to make clearere in their wording what is planned versus actual.

[slayda]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

We are always really glad to see representatives of the ebook industry participating on MobileRead and interacting with the community. We welcome their presence here and you can see that Robertb also received a friendly welcome when he started this thread. However it's one thing to participate in discussions in a reasonable way and give helpful information when people ask ; it's another thing to try to discredit competitors by posting misinformation and spreading FUD about them, and posting in multiple threads about competing devices to advertise your product.

We have not been confronted by this situation in the past, although we have many representatives from various companies participating here. Now we've realized we need to create some guidelines to better define what is appropriate for commercial posts and what is not. We are working on that. It is not a question of being resentful of forum behaviour ; MobileRead is growing and as the community grows we need sometimes to work on the structure in ways which were not necessary before. We are always doing our best to keep this community as open and welcoming to everyone as it has been, and also to make sure we continue to be the best place to find accurate, up to date and impartial information about *all* ebooks and devices available.

ZP, your culminating statement is all we ask, i.e. that MR be an impartial information about *all* ebooks and devices available. And I realize there has been both duplication and over-zealous enthusiasm by RobertB concerning Astak. I think that pjssilva's idea of having company reps. have some way to easily distinguish themselves as such is a great idea. But as far as impartiality goes, there have been two MR sponsored Kindle give-aways (no other ebook readers has such a record), and this week two "Front Page" items about the Sony 5" model. There have been neither of these on any of the Hanlin series devices (at least not recently). IMO this is hardly impartial.

Much of what RobertB's post have been is answers to MR members' questions. Perhaps it would have been better to communicate to him that he should tone down his company loyalty and enthusiasm in his posts.

It appears to me that the moderators have become upset with RobertB and are taking out their frustration on the Hanlin products. Yes, there has been a great deal of real information in the various threads but the "Front Page" items are seen by everyone logging into MR while the information in the threads must be purposely sought out. This has the tendency to bias newcomers toward those devices seen in "Front Page" articles.

MR is not only the best BLOG I participate in, it is the only one I regularly participate in and it has been due to the great job of the moderators (and Alex) in listening to the members. Please continue to listen to us on this and all issues.

Thank you very much.


RobertB, please work with MR to help keep valid information flowing to your potential customers.

Thanks,

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by slayda

But as far as impartiality goes, there have been two MR sponsored Kindle give-aways (no other ebook readers has such a record)

Just as a reminder there was one Kindle giveaway and there was one PICK ANY reader giveaway where a half dozen PICK ANY ebook store gift certs were also awarded to best "why I should win" postings.

BOb

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Just as a reminder there was one Kindle giveaway and there was one PICK ANY reader giveaway where a half dozen PICK ANY ebook store gift certs were also awarded to best "why I should win" postings.

BOb

Exactly. And the first contest that involved only a Kindle as a prize was meant specifically to promote our newly launched Kindle forums. It wouldn't have made much sense to offer a BeBook Reader as a contest prize for those who participate in the Kindle forums, would it?

It appears to me that the moderators have become upset with RobertB and are taking out their frustration on the Hanlin products.

I am not sure what you mean. If there was any reason for us to be upset with RobertB, then it was because he did not respond to us contacting him in regard to our concern regarding his recent increase in sales pitches. How do we disqualify Hanlin products?

Yes, there has been a great deal of real information in the various threads but the "Front Page" items are seen by everyone logging into MR while the information in the threads must be purposely sought out.

There are lots of news in the world of e-books that slip our frontpage. We don't have a team dedicated to frontpage articles. If you know someone who is a good writer and who would love to join our team to regularly deliver objective news to our frontpage, please get in contact with me.

MR is not only the best BLOG I participate in, it is the only one I regularly participate in and it has been due to the great job of the moderators (and Alex) in listening to the members. Please continue to listen to us on this and all issues.

Thank you, you just made my day.

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

Musicman, you are missing the point. As I said before - we do appreciate having on board a representative of a company that sells e-book devices. This thread has been full of information, some of it hands-on, that can be considered quite useful to a forum visitor. Nobody disagrees. The problem began only more recently when we felt that Robert's postings degraded from professional communication to relentless advertising. We contacted Robert to share our concerns, but he didn't reply.

It would make my day if this thread would go back to the kind of discussions we have seen before, without Robert constantly trying to lure users into ordering his products. It would show professional respect to leave the final decision making to the user.

In would still like to know who are the representatives of Sony and Amazon who are posting here.

Robert being over zealous pushing his product does not bother me, nor any other rep pushing their product as long as I know who they represent. If I know that the person raving about a device is REALLY a user and has no affiliation with the manufacturer, then I take what they say much more seriously. I have seen posts bashing Astaks products and I've wondered if these people had ulterior motives.

Now I see that on the front page you have a notice on the BeBook Firmware Upgrade, which I feel is a good thing. However, Astak had theirs a week and a half ago and there was no front page article.

The omission of any news regarding Astak is glaring, and it really only hurts MR users and visitors by not providing information on a product they may or may not be interested in.

[cvkemp]

MusicMan
I have to agree with you it comes across to me the same way if you are a PR person for a company or produce just come out and say so. Astak should receive the same postings as the other even with RobertB posting on here. And anyone that represents the other brands should be as up front and RobertB is and if they are not then I see it as being deceptive. And I when I find out anyone is be deceptive then I will not buy their produce even if it was the best on the market.
Chuck

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by Musicman

In would still like to know who are the representatives of Sony and Amazon who are posting here.

I don't know how this relates to this thread. In any way, I don't know who they are in person. They only tell us that they frequently visit our community and it's safe to assume that they do - and why shouldn't they? Do you think they don't surf the Web?

Robert being over zealous pushing his product does not bother me, nor any other rep pushing their product as long as I know who they represent.

I am glad it doesn't bother you. And it's absolutely legitimate for Roger to be zealous about the product he represents. All I am asking for is to reduce the sales pitch and to focus on the discussion of the product again.

Now I see that on the front page you have a notice on the BeBook Firmware Upgrade, which I feel is a good thing. However, Astak had theirs a week and a half ago and there was no front page article.

I assume the frontpage article you are referring to is Mobipocket ebooks useless after firmware upgrade. The focus of this article is the fact that with the upgrade you lose access to all your purchased Mobipocket e-books. In essence it's more about DRM (and it's inherent dangers) than about the upgrade.

Originally Posted by Musicman

The omission of any news regarding Astak is glaring, ...

I would appreciate it if you checked the facts first before making baseless claims.

Hanlin V5 will be distributed by Astak

Astak announced today that it will be the new North American distributor of the Hanlin V5 (aka Bebook Mini). The V5 has been rebranded as the Pocket Pro, and has a retail of $199. It should be available in about 2 months.

The Pocket Pro will come with support for Adobe DRMed Epub. Fictionwise eReader is also offered as an option.

06-02-2009

I know you said you believe in conspiracy stories, but trust me, there is no conspiracy at MobileRead.

I would appreciate it if we could go back to the topic of this thread.

[cvkemp]

That may be true but it still never showed on the home page. And that is what I am talking about

Chuck

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by cvkemp

That may be true but it still never showed on the home page. And that is what I am talking about

Chuck, you are wrong. This is straight from the frontpage.

[Musicman]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

Chuck, you are wrong. This is straight from the frontpage.

I don't recall seeing this on the front page. How do I search for the past weeks recaps to verify (not that I do not believe you)?

However, the past week we had the Official Pre-Order news with a reduction in Price to 199.99 and that was not considered front page news.

What started the debate was the moderators response below that appears as a punishment for being active here. Pre-Orders being accepted, Price Reductions, Firmware Upgrades, are all news worthy items that I think all members would be interested in.

Regarding requests for an announcement of the Astak devices, Astak has previously been featured on the MobileRead frontpage. The MobileRead team has not so far seen the need for any additional announcements, because Robertb has been very active on MobileRead as an official representative of the Astak brand, which is a unique situation. Given his high activity here, we consider that it is superfluous to create an additional thread to duplicate his announcements which are already quite well publicised. MobileRead is an independent site, and we have to be careful to avoid showing favoritism to one company over the others. There are no Sony reps posting officially in Sony's name on MobileRead, that is why we do the reporting ourselves. We must think about a balance in the news here and Astak has already quite a high profile due to Robertb's presence. It's important we not neglect other brands which are not as actively represented here but which are important to our readers.

[ekaser]

This discussion seems of importance to more than just those folks interested in Astak products, as it pertains to ALL "company reps" identifying themselves, their behaviors in these forums, as well as MODERATORS identifying themselves (along with their duties, interests and affiliations). So, I've started a separate thread that is more generic called "MobileRead and Editorial Policy":
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53095

Everett

[dmikov]

Originally Posted by Musicman

In would still like to know who are the representatives of Sony and Amazon who are posting here.

Robert being over zealous pushing his product does not bother me, nor any other rep pushing their product as long as I know who they represent. If I know that the person raving about a device is REALLY a user and has no affiliation with the manufacturer, then I take what they say much more seriously. I have seen posts bashing Astaks products and I've wondered if these people had ulterior motives.

Now I see that on the front page you have a notice on the BeBook Firmware Upgrade, which I feel is a good thing. However, Astak had theirs a week and a half ago and there was no front page article.

The omission of any news regarding Astak is glaring, and it really only hurts MR users and visitors by not providing information on a product they may or may not be interested in.

Intersting that you say so Musicman. You joined in May 2009 at the top of Astak threading. You have 128 posts 4 of which doesn't relate to Astak, the rest are in the above mentioned Astak threads.
What is your affiliation with Astak? I always wanted to ask.
You, Griffon and RobertB are bumping three Astak threads up to 3 times a day each.

[griffonwing]

Originally Posted by dmikov

Intersting that you say so Musicman. You joined in May 2009 at the top of Astak threading. You have 128 posts 4 of which doesn't relate to Astak, the rest are in the above mentioned Astak threads.
What is your affiliation with Astak? I always wanted to ask.
You, Griffon and RobertB are bumping three Astak threads up to 3 times a day each.

I put in more than 3 comments per day, thank you

I am very excited to finally be able to purchase and own an ebook reader device. I have been following up on Kindles, Sonys, and Irex devices. I came very close a few years ago to purchase the Sony 500, but I was very underwhelmed when compaing the website hype to the actual device hands-on in Borders.

Also, the Irex was way too expensive to purchase, but the large screen and 16 level grayscale was very tempting.

But if you notice, many of my comments are simply light banter, mixed with personal thoughts, ideas, and occasionally brilliant commentary.

I don't consider it 'bumping', as most of my posts are in answer to questions or comments. "Bumping" is a blatant post whose only mission is to get the thread back in the top spot. I rarely ever do those, unless it's a question I have asked that has gone to page 5 with no response.

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by Musicman

I don't recall seeing this on the front page.

This discussion leads to nothing. I pointed out that you were wrong. You still believe in a conspiracy theory. That's fine with me - it's your right. I invite you to message me in private if you like to discuss your theory further.