Why i think the Illiad will fail (or has already). - Page 6

nekokami · 01-08-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snappy!

Just a thought ... this thread is like quite off-topic by now. Maybe we should come back to why, or why else you think iLiad will fail. We all know DRM is a *potential* show-stopper, so what else?

Mainly I think the price is too high, especially for existing functionality. But I don't regard the iLiad as a failure-- just as a prototype, not a successful production model.

At some point iRex will need to decide if they want to pursue the eBook reader market, the "info pad" market, the tablet market, the linux geek hobbyist market, or *only* the vertical B2B market, and adjust pricing (and hardware costs) accordingly. Right now they're charging full laptop prices for a relatively weak eBook reader and interesting (though frustrating) hobbyist toy. Presumably the pilots using it for FlyBook are getting better value for the money than the eBook customers. But I think there are a lot more potential eBook customers than pilots. iRex needs to decide which customers they want to try to serve, and consider if they need alternate hardware models (and potentially, software services) to be successful.

scotty1024 · 01-08-2007, 09:22 AM

All I know is that because of my increasingly flakey page flip bar I put my latest John Ringo ARC A Deeper Blue onto my Sony Reader and though the screen is smaller I'm loving the instant on and off.

I'll probably be retiring my iLiad soon due to the page bar. I really can't face iRex customer service (and the UPS back billing) for the 4th time. Too many things go wrong and everything moves at a glacial pace. Heck I haven't even gotten the deluxe iRex case for it and I'll be retiring it. I think that really says it all right there.

markiehill · 01-08-2007, 10:00 AM

Funny you should say that, i was just looking at the sony reader and thinking exactly the same.

The page bar thing is also very annoying and getting on my nerves, not sure if its a hardware or software thing but its driving me nuts when it happens.

The biggest killer though is lack of instant on, i mean every time i think about reading for 10-20 minutes i have to boot the thing up wait for it... i know its only twenty seconds or so, but its the whole process that just seems wrong.

Plus the faffing about with formats that i have to do, which i got working on windows last night with wordpad rather than word and pdf creator, the whole process just feels slow slow slow.

I really want the Illiad to be a success, but i have seen so many technologies come and go that i am over 70% confident that Irex will not be doing this in a years time unless a major change of direction is taken.

Mark

markiehill · 01-08-2007, 04:05 PM

Scotty looking at the amount of work that you have done for the Illiad already it would be a bit of a loss to the Illiad community for you to jump ship to the sony ereader

Mark

nekokami · 01-08-2007, 04:28 PM

Why I think the iLiad may fail: because Scotty1024 is giving up on it.

(Not trying to say he's the only developer, just that he's done the most hacking into the guts of the thing, and if he gives up, I think it's going to have a pretty serious impact on the iLiad community.)

NatCh · 01-08-2007, 05:22 PM

Some of us, on the other hand, have been waiting for scotty to give the Reader equal time for quite a while now.

markiehill · 01-08-2007, 05:54 PM

Lets get this in perspective here, for us to be discussing the Illiad and the Sony ereader in the same paragraph shows what a way Irex has come with the Illiad,

However they need to ramp up development on device and also be honest about the hardware issues that prevent the device from having some kind of standby.

I think the only real way forward for the Illiad is to fully engage the community before other devices run past it in terms of updates and capability.

The Illiad might have better technology than the sony device , but if the pace of development remains the same for 2007 it will look like an also ran by the end of it.

Mark

henkvdg · 01-08-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty1024

All I know is that because of my increasingly flakey page flip bar I put my latest John Ringo ARC A Deeper Blue onto my Sony Reader and though the screen is smaller I'm loving the instant on and off.

I'll probably be retiring my iLiad soon due to the page bar. I really can't face iRex customer service (and the UPS back billing) for the 4th time. Too many things go wrong and everything moves at a glacial pace. Heck I haven't even gotten the deluxe iRex case for it and I'll be retiring it. I think that really says it all right there.

Sorry to hear that.
I hope iRex will send you a second iLiad to encourage you to stay.

jæd · 01-09-2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiehill

However they need to ramp up development on device and also be honest about the hardware issues that prevent the device from having some kind of standby.

I think the only real way forward for the Illiad is to fully engage the community before other devices run past it in terms of updates and capability.

Both of these have already happened and Irex have been very upfront about the capabilities of the hardware... And I don't see anyone from Sony taking as much interest in the community as Irex has...

jæd · 01-09-2007, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markiehill

The Illiad might have better technology than the sony device , but if the pace of development remains the same for 2007 it will look like an also ran by the end of it.

If the pace of development is the same I would expect the Iliad to be more of a match for the Reader in about two months. (Unless there is a firmware update for the Reader to fully support pdfs...)

And hopefully the next verion of Sony's device will support annotations. Then I might consider it...!

CommanderROR · 01-09-2007, 03:42 AM

@Scotty1024

If you really retire your Iliad, I'm afraid that will be one huge step back for the Iliad Community here since you were one of the most active software developers here and I had hopes you might give us a way to jump off the iRex Update snail...

markiehill · 01-09-2007, 06:14 AM

Jaed, not just an update but a new Sony Reader by all accounts. My point was that Irex needed to grab share quickly, now Iriver, Amazon & Sony are entering this market they need an outstanding device, with outstanding capabilities + the software to support it.

Mark

yvanleterrible · 01-09-2007, 08:53 AM

Irex has wasted the lead time it had in a new field.
The reasons are understandable, most everything had to be created from scratch. But followers are still on their heels with an intent on the real plusses or a reader. Drastic investments are needed in software and marketing. The first throw has'nt reached far enough and an other shot is too far away...

Moonraker · 01-09-2007, 09:48 AM

I suspect another competitor is about to enter the market - According to the Yahoo Fictionwise Group the makers of the famous eBookwise have a new reading device in the pipeline. Apparently a non-disclosure agreement prevents them from making any public announcement on timeframe or specifications at this time.

jæd · 01-09-2007, 10:45 AM

But does it matter if either the Iliad or the Reader "fail"...? And what do we mean by fail. Dunno about others, but at least now we have choice. This time last year there were no e-ink readers around. At least the consumer has "won" in that regard.

And are Irex interested in "winning"...? From the beginning they've said this is a b2b product... I think they still see the consumer market as an extended beta-test. And I think that is working... So far we've seen some important data points come out, eg, the importance of zoom/pan for pdf, and fast booting times.

Perhaps when Phillips bring out a consumer e-reader it will use this research...?

I'd only be really concerned if I had purchased DRM'd books for the reader I've got. Because then the value of the books I had bought would depend on having a compatible reader...!

01-08-2007, 10:00 AM	#78
markiehill Connoisseur Posts: 94 Karma: 192 Join Date: Jul 2006	Funny you should say that, i was just looking at the sony reader and thinking exactly the same. The page bar thing is also very annoying and getting on my nerves, not sure if its a hardware or software thing but its driving me nuts when it happens. The biggest killer though is lack of instant on, i mean every time i think about reading for 10-20 minutes i have to boot the thing up wait for it... i know its only twenty seconds or so, but its the whole process that just seems wrong. Plus the faffing about with formats that i have to do, which i got working on windows last night with wordpad rather than word and pdf creator, the whole process just feels slow slow slow. I really want the Illiad to be a success, but i have seen so many technologies come and go that i am over 70% confident that Irex will not be doing this in a years time unless a major change of direction is taken. Mark Last edited by markiehill; 01-08-2007 at 10:02 AM.

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01-08-2007, 09:22 AM	#77
scotty1024 Banned Posts: 1,300 Karma: 1479 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Peoples Republic of Washington Device: Reader / iPhone / Librie / Kindle	All I know is that because of my increasingly flakey page flip bar I put my latest John Ringo ARC A Deeper Blue onto my Sony Reader and though the screen is smaller I'm loving the instant on and off. I'll probably be retiring my iLiad soon due to the page bar. I really can't face iRex customer service (and the UPS back billing) for the 4th time. Too many things go wrong and everything moves at a glacial pace. Heck I haven't even gotten the deluxe iRex case for it and I'll be retiring it. I think that really says it all right there.

01-08-2007, 04:05 PM	#79
markiehill Connoisseur Posts: 94 Karma: 192 Join Date: Jul 2006	Scotty looking at the amount of work that you have done for the Illiad already it would be a bit of a loss to the Illiad community for you to jump ship to the sony ereader Mark

01-08-2007, 04:28 PM	#80
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	Why I think the iLiad may fail: because Scotty1024 is giving up on it. (Not trying to say he's the only developer, just that he's done the most hacking into the guts of the thing, and if he gives up, I think it's going to have a pretty serious impact on the iLiad community.)

01-08-2007, 05:22 PM	#81
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Some of us, on the other hand, have been waiting for scotty to give the Reader equal time for quite a while now.

01-08-2007, 05:54 PM	#82
markiehill Connoisseur Posts: 94 Karma: 192 Join Date: Jul 2006	Lets get this in perspective here, for us to be discussing the Illiad and the Sony ereader in the same paragraph shows what a way Irex has come with the Illiad, However they need to ramp up development on device and also be honest about the hardware issues that prevent the device from having some kind of standby. I think the only real way forward for the Illiad is to fully engage the community before other devices run past it in terms of updates and capability. The Illiad might have better technology than the sony device , but if the pace of development remains the same for 2007 it will look like an also ran by the end of it. Mark

01-09-2007, 03:42 AM	#86
CommanderROR eink fanatic Posts: 2,022 Karma: 4924 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Germany Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2	@Scotty1024 If you really retire your Iliad, I'm afraid that will be one huge step back for the Iliad Community here since you were one of the most active software developers here and I had hopes you might give us a way to jump off the iRex Update snail...

01-09-2007, 06:14 AM	#87
markiehill Connoisseur Posts: 94 Karma: 192 Join Date: Jul 2006	Jaed, not just an update but a new Sony Reader by all accounts. My point was that Irex needed to grab share quickly, now Iriver, Amazon & Sony are entering this market they need an outstanding device, with outstanding capabilities + the software to support it. Mark

01-09-2007, 08:53 AM	#88
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	Irex has wasted the lead time it had in a new field. The reasons are understandable, most everything had to be created from scratch. But followers are still on their heels with an intent on the real plusses or a reader. Drastic investments are needed in software and marketing. The first throw has'nt reached far enough and an other shot is too far away...

01-09-2007, 09:48 AM	#89
Moonraker Addict Posts: 314 Karma: 1002965 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: UK Device: ILiad. Gen 3, PocketBook 360, Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Oasis 2	I suspect another competitor is about to enter the market - According to the Yahoo Fictionwise Group the makers of the famous eBookwise have a new reading device in the pipeline. Apparently a non-disclosure agreement prevents them from making any public announcement on timeframe or specifications at this time.

01-09-2007, 10:45 AM	#90
jæd Evangelist Posts: 458 Karma: 293 Join Date: May 2006	But does it matter if either the Iliad or the Reader "fail"...? And what do we mean by fail. Dunno about others, but at least now we have choice. This time last year there were no e-ink readers around. At least the consumer has "won" in that regard. And are Irex interested in "winning"...? From the beginning they've said this is a b2b product... I think they still see the consumer market as an extended beta-test. And I think that is working... So far we've seen some important data points come out, eg, the importance of zoom/pan for pdf, and fast booting times. Perhaps when Phillips bring out a consumer e-reader it will use this research...? I'd only be really concerned if I had purchased DRM'd books for the reader I've got. Because then the value of the books I had bought would depend on having a compatible reader...!