Choose your own adventure ...

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by ahi

Thanks for that. Any good?

Would you ever pursue this sort of a project, Moejoe? I'd be greatly interested.

- Ahi

I do have an outline for a 'choose your own adventure' book, but as I always invevitably never finish anything I outline, it's a project that I'll probably never begin.


Maybe in the future when I have more time I'll have a play around with it and see what I can do (the hyperlinked nature of ebooks would be perfect for this kind of project).

[ahi]

Well, if you do, make some noise about it on here.

I wonder if there exist any resources that explain the methodology/processes behind writing good "choose your own adventure" style books. (Addressing things like how often your story should branch, and how widely ought branches detour [lest the project become utterly unmanageable].)

- Ahi

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by ahi

Well, if you do, make some noise about it on here.

I wonder if there exist any resources that explain the methodology/processes behind writing good "choose your own adventure" style books. (Addressing things like how often your story should branch, and how widely ought branches detour [lest the project become utterly unmanageable].)

- Ahi

It's almost exactly the same as writing game scripts/storylines and also overlaps with interactive fiction (which sometimes needs a knowledge of programming to accomplish the end results.) This is a kind of fiction that MUST have an outline to work. I'd think any resources that are targetted toward developing stories for video games would be helpful. Here's something similar to the outline I worked on (and now can't seem to find)

http://www.stormthecastle.com/video-...ame-script.htm

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

It's almost exactly the same as writing game scripts/storylines and also overlaps with interactive fiction (which sometimes needs a knowledge of programming to accomplish the end results.) This is a kind of fiction that MUST have an outline to work. I'd think any resources that are targetted toward developing stories for video games would be helpful. Here's something similar to the outline I worked on (and now can't seem to find)

http://www.stormthecastle.com/video-...ame-script.htm

Speaking of IF--are you familiar with Inform 7, Moejoe?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by ahi

Speaking of IF--are you familiar with Inform 7, Moejoe?

That looks very interesting. When I played around with IF it was just a little beyond my capabilities at the time, and more than a little fiddly, but this Inform 7 does look interesting. I'll bookmark that for a better look later on. Thanks for the link

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

That looks very interesting. When I played around with IF it was just a little beyond my capabilities at the time, and more than a little fiddly, but this Inform 7 does look interesting. I'll bookmark that for a better look later on. Thanks for the link

Here's the source (yes, really the source) file of one of the early games developed for Inform 7: http://www.inform-fiction.org/I7Down...nze/source.txt

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by ahi

Here's the source (yes, really the source) file of one of the early games developed for Inform 7: http://www.inform-fiction.org/I7Down...nze/source.txt

I can't believe we haven't seen a proper CYOM (choose your own mystery) series yet released to ebooks. Mysteries would be a perfect genre to make into hypertext, and because of their traditionally small size, not as much of a hassle to write either. Also its a perennial genre that always sells well, so for a publisher of any size it would make sense.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

I can't believe we haven't seen a proper CYOM (choose your own mystery) series yet released to ebooks. Mysteries would be a perfect genre to make into hypertext, and because of their traditionally small size, not as much of a hassle to write either. Also its a perennial genre that always sells well, so for a publisher of any size it would make sense.

You're thinking of the idea of letting the reader search for clues without having to yield the tyranny of the author deciding where and when?

I also have thought before that this sort of an approach might make for a compelling way to present ethnographic information. (e.g.: You arrive to the little _____ian village and can interview its most prominent members, and wander about to explore its streets and buildings.)

- Ahi

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by ahi

You're thinking of the idea of letting the reader search for clues without having to yield the tyranny of the author deciding where and when?

I also have thought before that this sort of an approach might make for a compelling way to present ethnographic information. (e.g.: You arrive to the little _____ian village and can interview its most prominent members, and wander about to explore its streets and buildings.)

- Ahi

Something along those lines, or maybe like this:

Rachel Darkwood drops into the seat, her hair the colour of a shark's smile. She places an unlit cigarette between her lips and bats her eyelids at you. You step forward, a wry smile on your face.

Do you offer Rachel a light
Ask Rachel where she was at midnight
Slap the cigarette from Rachel's mouth


Of course, I like Hardboiled/40's Noir type mysteries so that's where my example would lead. But it would work with cozy's or whatever genre. I'd think every junction would be related to a clue, perhaps, or the asking of questions to a suspect.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Something along those lines, or maybe like this:

Rachel Darkwood drops into the seat, her hair the colour of a shark's smile. She places an unlit cigarette between her lips and bats her eyelids at you. You step forward, a wry smile on your face.

Do you offer Rachel a light
Ask Rachel where she was at midnight
Slap the cigarette from Rachel's mouth


Of course, I like Hardboiled/40's Noir type mysteries so that's where my example would lead. But it would work with cozy's or whatever genre. I'd think every junction would be related to a clue, perhaps, or the asking of questions to a suspect.

Hmmmm... the problem with this sort of thing is that once you've done one of those actions, you ought not to be returned to the same page again. Not so?

In an eBook that is static, how would you deal with that?

Unless your source file does actually specify some logic, and your "compiled" eBook whose size (unlike that of paper books) ultimately can be thousands of pages for all it matters, would contain a lot of duplicate numbered paragraphs with only their linked destinations differing in order to accommodate portions of the book that mix "scenes" that are always the same (an empty hall) versus ones that may change (a room with Rachel, wherein interaction will lastingly alter things therein).

That wasn't totally clear... but do you understand what I mean?

- Ahi

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by ahi

Hmmmm... the problem with this sort of thing is that once you've done one of those actions, you ought not to be returned to the same page again. Not so?

In an eBook that is static, how would you deal with that?

Unless your source file does actually specify some logic, and your "compiled" eBook whose size (unlike that of paper books) ultimately can be thousands of pages for all it matters, would contain a lot of duplicate numbered paragraphs with only their linked destinations differing in order to accommodate portions of the book that mix "scenes" that are always the same (an empty hall) versus ones that may change (a room with Rachel, wherein interaction will lastingly alter things therein).

That wasn't totally clear... but do you understand what I mean?

- Ahi

There are definite problems, one of which is how exactly do you make it so that the choices are logical and not overwhelming to the reader. From my own experience with the books there was always the possibility of 'death' depending on the next choice. The 2nd person narrative along with the making of choices gives the CYOA/M style a potency that doesn't exist in other, more traditional forms. You, the reader, 'playing' the character can die within the fiction...and you have to start again, or at least from your last choice.


So the fiction itslef becomes a game, you have to find the right path, follow the right clues, and ask the right questions to find the murderer, survive the book. Of course this would need careful planning, and there would have to be multiple routes through to the end, each logical enough to sustain.

Whatever problems inherent, the actual challenge more than makes up for it. I think I'll see if I can apply this methodology retroactively to one of my short stories that I have on hold and see what happens.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

There are definite problems, one of which is how exactly do you make it so that the choices are logical and not overwhelming to the reader. From my own experience with the books there was always the possibility of 'death' depending on the next choice. The 2nd person narrative along with the making of choices gives the CYOA/M style a potency that doesn't exist in other, more traditional forms. You, the reader, 'playing' the character can die within the fiction...and you have to start again, or at least from your last choice.

So the fiction itslef becomes a game, you have to find the right path, follow the right clues, and ask the right questions to find the murderer, survive the book. Of course this would need careful planning, and there would have to be multiple routes through to the end, each logical enough to sustain.

Whatever problems inherent, the actual challenge more than makes up for it. I think I'll see if I can apply this methodology retroactively to one of my short stories that I have on hold and see what happens.

Well, I think there are two main types of CYOA type books:

In one, the book attempts to become a game, as you said. In this mode, with some regularity seemingly mundane tasks must be offered as possibilities to the reader, to give the impression of "doing".

The other type is where the story branching is used to add literary depth... in effect permitting the author to write several stories out of one. Such stories would not offer choices whose results are trivial, but would instead offer them in literarily/story-development-wise/character-development-wise significant places/ways (and presumably far more infrequently than in the first type).

Type 1: Do you open the box on the table, or do you check behind the paintings for a hidden safe?

Type 2: Do you give Zoltan the benefit of the doubt, and meet him as he asked, or do you search for evidence that he is behind the robbery?

Does this make sense? The former aims for primarily out of what happens, whereas the second realizes that the how is almost as important, and cannot be left to the reader's whims to be strung together in whatever order, lest they fail to convey what the author intends.

- Ahi

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by ahi

Well, I think there are two main types of CYOA type books:

In one, the book attempts to become a game, as you said. In this mode, with some regularity seemingly mundane tasks must be offered as possibilities to the reader, to give the impression of "doing".

The other type is where the story branching is used to add literary depth... in effect permitting the author to write several stories out of one. Such stories would not offer choices whose results are trivial, but would instead offer them in literarily/story-development-wise/character-development-wise significant places/ways (and presumably far more infrequently than in the first type).

Type 1: Do you open the box on the table, or do you check behind the paintings for a hidden safe?

Type 2: Do you give Zoltan the benefit of the doubt, and meet him as he asked, or do you search for evidence that he is behind the robbery?

Does this make sense? The former aims for primarily out of what happens, whereas the second realizes that the how is almost as important, and cannot be left to the reader's whims to be strung together in whatever order, lest they fail to convey what the author intends.

- Ahi

Makes total sense, the Kim Newman book does what you suggest and adds 'literary depth' to the fiction. The choose-your-own portion is there to enhance the fiction, rather than provide a 'game'. It gives us a significantly differnent story and meaning dependent on the choices made. The original CYOA books were basically games, some even had dice printed on the bottom right hand corners of pages so that you could roll them to make choices/fight battles against monsters (a lot of fun).

The mystery genre is a 'game' genre, so it would have to be the kind of solve-the-puzzle-and-don't-get-killed or don't-let-the-murderer-escape kind of challenge to make it work. If it was a literary endeavour I would think it would be a lot easier to make it work, as you wouldn't have to be so concerned with the logical outcome of the story strands, if they have an outcdome at all.

[Witchbaby]

Originally Posted by Witchbaby

I can't remember what it was called, but if I find it, I'll let you know.

Found it!

Big Night Out

It was fun, in that reliving childhood memories (and with the help of several cocktails) sort of way. Definitely not a masterpiece, and definitely R-rated.

(I forgot that going out for a night on the town wasn't the actual end goal, rather having um, a romantic encounter was).

[chlorine]

Big night out sounds like fun, and some second hand books can be had for quite cheap, I am tempted to get a copy.

The theme seems similar to the adventure game Leisure Suit Larry produced by Sierra, I wonder if there's a connection between the two.