geographic restrictions at Fictionwise

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by dpierron

I couldn't agree more : imagine that I, a french citizen, with a french credit card, happen to wander in the Big Apple, NY, USA... I enter a bookstore, and purchase an american edition of a book, printed in the USA, and published by a publisher who has secured the publication rights for the USA.

Would I be allowed such a purchase ? I guess that I would, although maybe I should give proper consideration to taxes...

What's the difference between this scenario and when I try buying a (e)book at Fictionwise ?

It could be interesting to explain this to the publishers, wouldn't it...

They'd probably be able to give a valid reason why you should be allowed to buy that physical book and not the ebook Or, they'll be standing at the airport next, demanding all books that have been bought before you're allowed to enter the plane!

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

They'd probably be able to give a valid reason why you should be allowed to buy that physical book and not the ebook Or, they'll be standing at the airport next, demanding all books that have been bought before you're allowed to enter the plane!

or the vendor at the bookshop at the airport terminal should be asking you for your passport to see if the sale is allowable....

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by dpierron

I couldn't agree more : imagine that I, a french citizen, with a french credit card, happen to wander in the Big Apple, NY, USA... I enter a bookstore, and purchase an american edition of a book, printed in the USA, and published by a publisher who has secured the publication rights for the USA.

Would I be allowed such a purchase ? I guess that I would, although maybe I should give proper consideration to taxes...

You certainly would be allowed to make that purchase. The locus of the sale is the bookstore which is in the USA, so the sale of the book falls within the publishers contractual rights.

To state things even more carefully, the publisher's contract with the author/agent restricts the location of the first sale of the book. Because of the "right of first sale" the contract between publisher and author does not and cannot place restrictions after that first sale takes place. This then raises the questions "When is a 'sale' actually a sale?" and "Once we've identified that first sale, where is the locus of the sale?"

In the US market most bookstores and distributors 'buy' books on a consignment basis. That is, they can return the books for a full refund of their (supposed) purchase price. [n.b. -- Hardcovers are literally returned, mass-market paperbacks are usually stripped of their front cover and discarded with only the front cover being returned.] Because of the right to return for a full refund, this usually does not constitute an actual sale (for purposes of determining the locus of the sale). Thus, distributors generally won't ship outside their geographic region (whether USA or North American, as the case may be). A sale from a bookstore to a person, however does satisfy the definition of a "real sale," and so establishes the locus of the sale. For retail sales from a store, (or kiosk, or whatever), that locus is the physical location of the store.

For arcane reasons that I do not understand (I am not a lawyer!), the definition of the locus of sale for mail-order sales of physical goods such as books is not the same as the definition of the locus of sale for downloaded online content. For mail-order of physical goods, the locus of sale is the physical location of the facility that houses and ships the product. This may be a warehouse, a retail store, or the publisher's basement to name just a few possibilities. For some odd reason the locus of sale for a download is (or maybe it's just "might be"!) the location of the buyer's computer.

And it's even more complicated when you add tax questions (especially State and local sales taxes) into the picture. A taxing body local to both the seller and the buyer can collect sales tax on the sale to an end-user. But companies that do business in more than one state become 'local' in each state where they have a physical facility. Further, states attempt to collect a 'use tax' on all interstate purchases for which there is no sales tax. But use taxes are perhaps the least popular tax there is in the USA -- they are widely avoided, almost no one pays.

Originally Posted by dpierron

What's the difference between this scenario and when I try buying a (e)book at Fictionwise ?

It could be interesting to explain this to the publishers, wouldn't it...

What's the difference? See the above meandering description. The situation is really quite bizarre.

Xenophon

[Coops]

Amusing that simply stating your Visa address incorrectly is enough....

Did download one using my Paypal account, ok. Had a US address in the account already.

So what format is best to download from Fictionwise for using on the Sony prs505?

[Coops]

Thanks to everyone on this site!

Not only bought an ebook with a US dollar credit card from a Jersey, UK based Bank for an English guy, living in Thailand and making the purchase from work in Brunei (who'd have ever though it would be this difficult to pay someone for something!) but even, errrr, modified the mobi format so i can *gasp* read it on my Sony in lrf format.

Thanks

:-)

[Kostas]

I tested today the workaround with the PayPal US address + European credit card. Total failure!
I get the following message:

The amount of this transaction exceeds your remaining sending limit and cannot be processed at this time.
* You will need to add and confirm your bank account. Once your bank account has been added and confirmed, you can continue this payment. Add your bank account information below.

Actually, I got a PayPal account with a sending limit of $0!

Obviously, creating a new PayPal account with US address but no bank account is useless!

I did some google search and found this hilarious dialog with PayPal Customer Service:

I'm trying to pay with a debit card through Paypal, and I linked it, but I haven't linked a bank account yet. I'm trying to buy something through a site which only accepts Paypal, and my sending limits are $0.00. How can I raise the sending limit without linking a bank account?

If your'e in the US, adding and confirming a bank account is the only way to raise your sending limit (requirements can vary by country). We extend the opportunity for some use of PayPal for most customers prior to having their identity confirmed further, but this limit is a protection to PayPal, as well as financial institutions and to recipients of funds.
Thanks,
PayPal Jason

This is a crock! It has nothing to do with security! Paypal (eBay) just wants to get their fingers into another account, just in case the Paypal debit card balance goes over!

Spoiler:

If Paypal did their job right, ALL payments would be INSTANT, thus making it impossible to go into the negative! But, you guys piss around and wait 2 or 3 days on "pending" payments, and people go over their balance and you guys get stuck with the tab.
Let's stop bullshitting the PAYING customers!
I've been using eBay/Paypal for over ten years and now my account is useless because you jerks want me to tie a bank account into my Paypal.(by the way, prooving I've spent at least $10,000 using the service!!!)
How is that making anything more secure for me? If anything, it's just exposing me to more threats, now you (or another thief) can take money out of another account without any fore-warning or permission from me...then ask questions later, just keeping my hard earned money tied up for days!
We tried using my bank account, remember Paypal? You guys screwed that up too. You decided to charge my debit card, which I selected, then 3 days later removed the pending charges fromk my card and took it from my bank...without having to give me a straight answer...cause YOU HAVE CONTROL!!!
I can't wait until another company gets this idea going, we need an alternative to Paypal.

Any time Paypal decides to cover their ass or gain more control, they change policy and scream "SECURITY REASONS"!

Adding a bank account confirms for us that the account holder on file has access to the financial records that were added to the account. Additionally, while we don't know everything that your bank knows about you, when you register a bank account, you're providing that financial institution with information about yourself like a valid address, your social security number, etc.
By acknowledging the deposits we send to that bank, the account holder has demonstrated they've provided enough of an identity verification to the bank that they were allowed to open an account.
This makes our service more secure because our customers have demonstrated further proof of identity. Also, limiting the amount that can be sent on a PayPal account until additional proof of identity is provided absolutely protects us, our customers and the banks and credit card companies registered to PayPal accounts. If someone somehow gained access to your checking account number and your PayPal account, would you prefer to lose everything or have the damages limited?
The other thing that you're missing here is that we ask for A bank account for the purposes of identity verification. We do not say we need THE bank account where you transact and maintain a balance. See if your bank will let you open a separate business or personal bank account, or see if another bank in your community will let you open a free checking account.
We don't require a minimum monthly balance at PayPal...we simply want the assurance that our account holders are who they say they are when registering and that they've proven their identity further at a financial institution.
Finally, I'm asking Get Satisfaction if your post can stand with the obscenity removed. This is a violation of the rules of Get Satsifaction and this is a civil environment. As you can see above, there is a simple solution that should meet your needs in terms of confirming your identity further.

Thanks,
PayPal Jason

[pdurrant]

Before I found out that I could get by using the US delivery address on my UK paypal account, I did set up a US paypal account.

I think I verified it using my UK credit card, using the UK street address, with a US city and zipcode.

Originally Posted by Kostas

I tested today the workaround with the PayPal US address + European credit card. Total failure!
I get the following message:

Actually, I got a PayPal account with a sending limit of $0!

Obviously, creating a new PayPal account with US address but no bank account is useless!

I did some google search and found this hilarious dialog with PayPal Customer Service:

[columbus]

There is an alternative to PayPal if only more retailers would use it! and that is Google checkout - yes I know all the comments about Google & privacy- but they accept your cc as proof of identity etc. and as far as I can see it works the same way as paypal (used to). Books on board accept it.

Come on people - pester your favourite ebook seller to accept it!

[RobbieClarken]

It is unfortunate that PayPal requires a linked bank account as proof of identity, but I suspect this is to ensure they don't end up facing charges for aiding money launderers. This is what happened to E-Gold. I don't think you can blame PayPal for acting cautiously.

[dpierron]

I used a european (French) credit card (Visa) and specified a US address - actually, M. Obama let me his home

And guess what ? It worked perfectly... So why bother with Paypal ?

[Kostas]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Before I found out that I could get by using the US delivery address on my UK paypal account, I did set up a US paypal account.
I think I verified it using my UK credit card, using the UK street address, with a US city and zipcode.

Linking a US bank account to US PayPal account is obviously a new policy which does not affect older accounts.
According to what PayPal people say, there's no other way to really activate a US account.

Originally Posted by dpierron

I used a european (French) credit card (Visa) and specified a US address - actually, M. Obama let me his home
And guess what ? It worked perfectly... So why bother with Paypal ?

I think they feared that Obama could be disguised as dpierron (a not too France profonde nick) at mobileread.com .
I have some reserves as to give my cc number here and there.
Anyway, I might give a try to this method too. I'll use Schwarzeneger's address, just in case... Thanks

[Kostas]

Well, the bottom line is that while I can buy at amazon and many other sites any paperbook I want, I cannot have legally the digital versions of these books!
How logical in nowadays open world!!

Hey, where do those guy live? I am willing to pay to have something that I can get most of the times for free on any torrent server! With much lesser pain and time!
Don't they know that?
They don't want us to pay?
Are they pushing us towards darknet and piracy? Could they be undercover agents of the Swedish Pirate party?
Can't they offer us a legal way to have and pay those ebooks so that the author gets a fair return for his creativity?

[Idoine]

Originally Posted by Kostas

Linking a US bank account to US PayPal account is obviously a new policy which does not affect older accounts.
According to what PayPal people say, there's no other way to really activate a US account.


I think they feared that Obama could be disguised as dpierron (a not too France profonde nick) at mobileread.com .
I have some reserves as to give my cc number here and there.
Anyway, I might give a try to this method too. I'll use Schwarzeneger's address, just in case... Thanks

You can use your usual Paypal account to fuel your Micropay account, and then use it to pay (with your country at US or Canada).
That's what I do personally...

[Kostas]

Thanks Idoine!
Tough I guess you lose benefit of rebates, I'll try this hint too asap.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by Idoine

You can use your usual Paypal account to fuel your Micropay account, and then use it to pay (with your country at US or Canada).
That's what I do personally...

I do the same. The only problem are the discounts for members