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#151 | |
Apeist
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The sunny part of California
Device: Generic virtual reality story-experiential device
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But, the rest of us, find this act a violation. Just like we find, that deleting legally purchased files from our devices, without our permission, or a court order, a violation. And there is a reasonable argument, that under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, a court may find the same. Particularly now, that there is no minimum amount of damage required. |
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#152 | ||||
Wizard
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Join Date: May 2007
Device: iRex iLiad, DR800SG
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In all the examples I know of, the MMORPG data is deleted from the companies server, not from your PC. They specifically design the MMORPG so that the data is on their central servers because of this. Microsoft denies access, but does NOT delete customer data. Why do you think they even let you run it for 30 minutes at a time? It's because they can't deny access to you from retrieving your own data. I'm sure MS would rather make it so that the server wouldn't even boot, but they aren't allowed to do that. I'm pretty sure that's been through the courts, but I don't remember specifics. Quote:
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#153 |
Suave Swabby, Savvy?
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Location: Harrison, ARrrr, USA - southern Ozark mountains
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Breakdown.
The Ayn Rand book(s) were illegally uploaded. Amazon found out, removed them from their library, and sent out an APB to all Kindles to be on the lookout for Ayn Rand books matching such and such description. All offending culprits were summarily located and deleted. Fine. We knew at the time they were uploaded illegally. We moaned, we griped. In the end, it was Amazon's call. Then, The same thing happened, only this time, it was not an individual uploading a PD book for profit, but a company. Inadvertently, we did not know at first that it was a PD issue. Now that we know, again, We moaned, we griped. In the end, it was Amazon's call. So, we can assume now that anytime a PD book is uploaded for sale, if you purchase it, it will soon be deleted and you will be reimbursed. This should be a given. Any more outcry for this issue should be ignored. NOW the issue is this. Amazon issued this statement first "Apparently, the publisher changed its mind about having electronic versions of Orwell's books. So Amazon removed them from the store..." according to Gizmodo. Amazon, regardless of legal purchases, will renege on your purchase agreement at the whim of a publisher who changes their mind. This they have just proven. I understand those who will say "This was just another case of a PD issue", but before that fact came to light, it was a matter of a publisher changing their mind, and pulling all previously sold books from the store and the Kindles. This is what we should really be focusing on. Reneging on honest sales during a legitimate agreement between publisher/distributor/purchaser. They've already proven they they are willing to do it. I know also they were quoted as saying they would no longer be deleting the books from the Kindle in regards to PD works, but does the same go for when a publisher changes their mind? That is something to at least think about, and keep in mind when you decide to purchase another ebook from Amazon. |
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#154 |
Addict
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Device: Sony PRS-505
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I don't necessarily even believe that this was an issue of unauthorized sale... I still think the original reason that "the publisher changed its mind" was the ultimate truth. Amazon realized very quickly how bad that sounded and spun out the copyright violation defense in its place.
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#155 | |
Suave Swabby, Savvy?
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Orwell dies in 1950. Here in the US it's Life +75, meaning it won't be PD here until 2025. Unless we go by Date of Publishing. Animal Farm (1945) 1984 (1949). I'm not certain how to calculate PD books by date of publication. |
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#156 |
Wizard
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Device: BeBook, Sony PRS-T1, Kobo H2O
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I'm still wondering why there is any outcry at all?
As has been said time and again on these boards, this is a brave new digital world. On the one hand it seems totally accepted that if a consumer can get digital content for free, regardless of the rights of the author, then it is ok to do that. Now the shoe is on the other foot, Amazon can delete your content regardless of your rights, and this brave new world doesn't seem so nice after all. You really can't have it both ways. Either everyones rights are fair game or no one's should be. Cheers, PKFFW |
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#157 | |
Wizard
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Device: none
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Cheers, Ahi |
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#158 | |
space cadet
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The US Court system has apparently already declared a similar case to be not only legal, but required.
http://www.slate.com/id/2223214/ Quote:
I don't have a Kindle, and I probably won't ever get one, but if I was not already leaning that way this issue would make me reconsider. |
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#159 | |
Addict
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If Vorauseilender Gehorsam crosses the border to Vigilante then it becomes illegal. And that is my opinion: Amazon acted vigilante here. Others might think different. Martin |
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#160 | |
eBook Enthusiast
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Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
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#161 | ||||
Grand Sorcerer
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Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
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Food for thought... |
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#162 | |
Suave Swabby, Savvy?
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Location: Harrison, ARrrr, USA - southern Ozark mountains
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Not physical books. Now, e-books, by Amazon's own words, they are willing to do just that very thing. I will never own a device like that. What if a writer publishes an ebook that decries and undermines/exposes the Obama regime. I purchase it to see what the hubbub i about. The government steps in and orders a federal mandate to Amazon to remove the book and all copies from Kindles. Or the government 'persuades' the publisher to do the same. The fact that they CAN and WILL do such a thing makes me never want to own a Kindle. I have never bought anything from Amazon. Unbelievable though it may seem. And with this, I never will. |
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#163 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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Take your example. Instead of buying the ebook, you bought the pbook. As the government would want all books to dissapear (what can't be found, has never existed, right?). Would they search every house for a copy? Naturally not. Too expensive and even worse publicity. Would they tell Amazon to remove it from their list and all the kindles that have the book? Yes, easy to do, it will cause a minor uproar, Amazon will get the blame, so, nothing lost. So, what's the difference? With pbooks, they COULD do it but it takes a lot of time and money. With ebooks, they CAN do it, probably with a push on a button... (and I agree with you that the they "CAN" can do it is a very good reason for me not to buy the device, even though they promise they never "WILL" do it. We all know how much promises from such a big company are worth...) |
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#164 |
Suave Swabby, Savvy?
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If option 1 (the pbooks) came to pass, it would require removal of property from your possession. A crime.
Option 2 (the ebooks), the same circumstance. It's a crime. If X+Y=Z once, X+Y=Z all the time. The only changes in the equation are the materials. Paper vs Electrons. Removal of an item that you paid for, simply because the published changed their minds, is a crime. I suppose that was my entire point. |
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#165 | |
Grand Sorcerer
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