Re-selling DRMed ebooks: Legal or not?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

It has been raised before in this thread, but to be more specific:

1.) Sharing an account:
I've got 4 PIDs in my (Mobipocket) account (for the other formats, usually it's similar).
Let's assume, I wouldn't even sell my readers, but just a "portion" of my account.
Meaning: I delete 1 of those 4 PIDs and hand that spot to another guy/girl.
So the account actually could be circulated between up to 4 parties at a time.
Each of those 4 parties would be able to access my library and read the eBooks on their respective readers.

Of course, distributor's argument will be, I'm the only one being allowed to have 4 units, but it's not allowed to spread over 4 legal persons.

My answer would be: Those 4 units could be owned by me, my parents and my wife. Why not 4 friends or colleagues? Or 4 total strangers?

So: Is it 4 units, exclusively bound to me or is it just 4 units?

If you buy your books from Fictionwise, then only you are permitted to read them. Not your wife, not your children, not your dog, not your friends .

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rrburton

So one should also be allowed to privately rent out an ebook as well, no?

Probably not. "Renting" computer software is specifically illegal in the UK, so I would imagine that the same applies to e-books. Might well vary depending on where you live, of course.

[kaas]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If you buy your books from Fictionwise, then only you are permitted to read them. Not your wife, not your children, not your dog, not your friends .

Oh my, how will I explain that to my dog?

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If you buy your books from Fictionwise, then only you are permitted to read them. Not your wife, not your children, not your dog, not your friends .

Does it mean you have to password-protect you ebook reader if you leave it on the coffee table?

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by rrburton

Oh and one other thing I was thinking about - wouldn't one think that the cost for a limited license electronic version of a work should be less than a fully transferrable printed version?

One would definitely think that. Also note that the pro-DRM publishers never mention this in the 'ebooks should cost as much as the other kind' argument.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by tompe

Note that this only says that the terms claim that it is illegal. It does not say that it actually is illegal.

Exactly. That's what most of this discussion has been about. Of course Amazon is going to say that you can't resell them. However, depending on what country you're in, those "terms of trade" may not be binding. Basically, Amazon can bark all they want, but they have no teeth.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by mgmueller

2.) Lending my eBooks to 3rd party

The catch here is that when you lend something, that means you do not have access to it while the person you lent it to is using it. There is only one instance of the file at a time. If you can figure out a way to do that with eBooks, then technically it should be legal.

I think libraries manage it by making the DRM expire after the lending period. IE, you "borrow" an eBook for 2 weeks, and after that time the DRM on that eBook expires and you can't access it anymore. Then somebody else can "borrow" the eBook. There's a controlled number of them "in circulation" at any point in time.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If you buy your books from Fictionwise, then only you are permitted to read them. Not your wife, not your children, not your dog, not your friends .

According to the law, or according to Fictionwise? That sounds a lot like another term of the sale that isn't really binding. If you buy a pBook, then you can certainly share it with your family. I doubt that eBooks are any different in the eyes of the law. Fictionwise can claim anything they want, but if it's not legally enforceable then they can't do anything about it.

[Elfwreck]

Fictionwise's "Copyright Notice":

You may download eBooks that you have bought for your personal use, but may not distribute them to other people using email, floppy, or any other method. You may not print copies and distribute those copies to other persons. Doing any of these things is a violation of international copyright law and would subject you to possible fines or imprisonment. It also deprives authors of their fair royalties. We charge reasonable prices for our eBooks; please do not steal from us and our authors.

This indicates that Fictionwise is claiming the reason for not sharing (or re-selling) is based on copyright law, rather than being a Terms of Use agreement. They are committing fraud--telling customers lies in order to get more money out of them.

It is NOT illegal to share your ebooks with your family, especially if they're reading the book on your device. That "any other method" clause is what moves it from an odd phrasing of their interp of copyright law to outright lies. "Any other method" includes "reading it off my PC/ebook device." Potentially includes "placing it on a server, which anyone in the house can access and read." Or "showing it on a large viewscreen."

Some might say those aren't "distributing" copies. But if I hand you my Reader, I've distributed it to you, even if I expect you to hand it back later. (If I distribute plates to guests at my house, nobody expects to keep them later.)

It's also not illegal to purchase (a product) for someone else. If I buy a round of books & give them to a friend, that's equally legal whether those books are made of paper or pixels. Fictionwise's inability to transfer download ability has no connection to the copyright issues involved.

F'wise is trying to claim that copyright law supports "one purchase, one reader." It does not. The medium of the copyrighted material doesn't change how the law works for it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The medium of the copyrighted material doesn't change how the law works for it.

It does in the sense that, if you lend someone a paper book that you've bought, then you are lending them the original item. You're doing the same thing if you lend them your physical e-book reader with an eBook on it. If, however, you make a copy of an eBook and "lend" them that, then you are violating copyright law by making an unauthorised copy. It would be like lending a friend a photocopy of a paper book - something which I think that everyone would agree is a copyright violation. You are permitted to make photocopies, but only for personal use.

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If you buy your books from Fictionwise, then only you are permitted to read them. Not your wife, not your children, not your dog, not your friends .

Really?
The actually permit you to read the books you pay for?

How generous!!!

Still, I wonder if it's legal to read them...
I have to ask my lawyer.

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Does it mean you have to password-protect you ebook reader if you leave it on the coffee table?

No, blinding your wife may be enough...

[Format C:]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It does in the sense that, if you lend someone a paper book that you've bought, then you are lending them the original item. You're doing the same thing if you lend them your physical e-book reader with an eBook on it. If, however, you make a copy of an eBook and "lend" them that, then you are violating copyright law by making an unauthorised copy. It would be like lending a friend a photocopy of a paper book - something which I think that everyone would agree is a copyright violation. You are permitted to make photocopies, but only for personal use.

Suddenly, Farenheit 451 comes to mind...

Learning a book by heart and reciting it may bring you to jail: it's an unauthorised copy.
No firemen burning them, though; just corporation taking money from us.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It does in the sense that, if you lend someone a paper book that you've bought, then you are lending them the original item. You're doing the same thing if you lend them your physical e-book reader with an eBook on it. If, however, you make a copy of an eBook and "lend" them that, then you are violating copyright law by making an unauthorised copy. It would be like lending a friend a photocopy of a paper book - something which I think that everyone would agree is a copyright violation. You are permitted to make photocopies, but only for personal use.

That's standard copyright law, it has nothing to do with digital vs physical. You can not distribute copies, it doesn't matter if they are physical copies or digital copies.

As Elfwreck says, the medium doesn't matter.

However, this discussion has nothing to do with distributing copies of eBooks. We're talking about selling the original, which should be legal. Again, the medium doesn't matter.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

That's standard copyright law, it has nothing to do with digital vs physical. You can not distribute copies, it doesn't matter if they are physical copies or digital copies.

As Elfwreck says, the medium doesn't matter.

It "matters" in the sense that, unless you physically lend somebody your eBook reader, copyright law prevents you from "lending" somebody an eBook, but does not prevent you from lending someone a paper book. It is of course the same law, but it applies in the eBook case because the "act" of lending generally involves making a copy.