Vegetarian?

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by disney_mommy

Let me start by saying I am a strict vegetarian - I do not eat or wear anything that has a face. I have been this way for nearing ten years and I have not looked back once. I strive to be a vegan, but it is hard for me personally.

I do it for ethical reasons only.

Ok, let's ask you then, what about wool? No animal was harmed in producing that. Or milk? A cow, goat or horse will always give milk if they have young, more than enough to share with us humans.

[griffonwing]

Oooooh, I sense a battle of wits coming! I hope the combatants come armed!

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Ok, let's ask you then, what about wool? No animal was harmed in producing that. Or milk? A cow, goat or horse will always give milk if they have young, more than enough to share with us humans.

Sheep are bred to produce more wool than they would naturally, which can cause suffering, and some die as a result of shearing. Veal calves are a by-product of the milk industry.

What I'd like to ask meat eaters is whether they agree with the principle of 'treating others how you'd like to be treated' - because I don't know many who would like to be treated the way food animals are treated; yet they often say the principle is a good one, and that they live by it.

[DixieGal]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I'm absolutely no vegetarian. I do like my meat at every meal. Though, it may also be fish.

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

I am the opposite. I do not want to eat a creature that is happily free ranging around, enjoying life... then killing it!

I want a creature that is terribly abused, tremendously unhappy, and basically begging to be put out of its misery.

Then it is like I am doing them a favor by eating them.

What they said!

Originally Posted by griffonwing

OK Zelda, here we go. This is my own recipe, altered from an old one I found. Never had a complaint yet.

Enjoy.

OMG! I did enjoy! Nearly had an organism just reading it!



I love you all, both carnivores and herbivores and all the omnivores in between. Let's do lunch. But please, just pick something off the menu and order it, OK? I'm diabetic, but I won't explain that I'm looking for high protein/low carb options, and you won't see me condemning you if you order dessert. I'll probably just take a quick shot under the table (I'm fast, could do it at the table and you might not even notice when I jab my leg through my pants) and order dessert also! So there's no need for you to explain about your vegetarianism, just pick what you want and I'll pick what I want, and will happily share a forkful with you if you want a taste. And I'll definitely want a forkful of your veggie casserole or whatever you get, because I love veggies with my meat.

[DixieGal]

Originally Posted by griffonwing

Oooooh, I sense a battle of wits coming! I hope the combatants come armed!

Don't you mean ARRRRmed?

[vivaldirules]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

OMG! I did enjoy! Nearly had an organism just reading it!

Oh, what she said! (doggie buries head in hands paws and tries to muffle a guffaw)

[griffonwing]

I think both sides have their negative impacts.

ANIMALS
Yes, some/many/most of the huge meat farms don't give a toss about the care of the animal in question. After all, they will soon be out of their misery, and in my casserole dish, so really, what should it matter? I'm sure this is the point of view of most people in the trade, from chicken farms, to turkey farms, to cattle farms. They raise animals solely to use for food.

VEGGIES
Think about the farms. All of the pesticides needed for the vast acres and acres of grain, corn, tomoatoes, and other veggies, and fruit orchards . All of this DDT and other pesticides get into the ground, in the water tables and can eventually get into your drinking water. Especially if you live near a farm and you have a well. At any rate, it's worse for the environment and land than the treatment of the animals.

As far as treatment, I don't think you can put us (meat-eaters) in the same category as those who actually do the raising/shearing/slaughtering. Yes, we partake, so we encourage the slaughter of the animals for use in our casseroles. But your partaking of the veggies also encourage the use of DDT and other nasty pesticides that can kill natural wildlife.

So really, it's lose/lose, no matter what type of food you eat. Animal or vegetable, we all do our part.

[griffonwing]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

OMG! I did enjoy! Nearly had an organism just reading it!

Isn't that ALWAYS the way with me.. it's always "nearly"!

[Willie Aames]

Vegetarian for about 5 years after 25 years of eating meat. Where once I loved a good grilled steak, I now find the smell revolting.

Did so initially because of agribusiness and the treatment of animals. Once the veil once lifted, I simply couldn't continue to support.

[vivaldirules]

I've been reading a lot of Gandhi's writings lately and he was astounded at the eating habits of South Africans in the 1890's. As he observed it, the Europeans that dominated there were meat and potato eaters who were mostly there seeking their fortunes in gold. But, as an outsider, he could only see vast opportunities for farming in a region rich with resources. He felt that if people would adopt a somewhat simpler lifestyle, including a vegetarian diet, many of the ills of that society would have been relieved including, perhaps, even the "colour prejudice" which consumed the bulk of his energies there for a couple of decades. As a reader, it's easy for me to see analogies with the present and I wonder if certain societal excesses would perhaps be eased if more people became less indulgent in, for example, their dietary habits.

[DixieGal]

Originally Posted by vivaldirules

I've been reading a lot of Gandhi's writings lately and he was astounded at the eating habits of South Africans in the 1890's. As he observed it, the Europeans that dominated there were meat and potato eaters who were mostly there seeking their fortunes in gold. But, as an outsider, he could only see vast opportunities for farming in a region rich with resources. He felt that if people would adopt a somewhat simpler lifestyle, including a vegetarian diet, many of the ills of that society would have been relieved including, perhaps, even the "colour prejudice" which consumed the bulk of his energies there for a couple of decades. As a reader, it's easy for me to see analogies with the present and I wonder if certain societal excesses would perhaps be eased if more people became less indulgent in, for example, their dietary habits.

On the other hand, dieters are always so cranky....

[vivaldirules]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

On the other hand, dieters are always so cranky....

Oooooo, you are so right there, DG. Okay, who's up for some nice BACON?!

[Willie Aames]

Originally Posted by griffonwing

I think both sides have their negative impacts.

ANIMALS
Yes, some/many/most of the huge meat farms don't give a toss about the care of the animal in question. After all, they will soon be out of their misery, and in my casserole dish, so really, what should it matter? I'm sure this is the point of view of most people in the trade, from chicken farms, to turkey farms, to cattle farms. They raise animals solely to use for food.

VEGGIES
Think about the farms. All of the pesticides needed for the vast acres and acres of grain, corn, tomoatoes, and other veggies, and fruit orchards . All of this DDT and other pesticides get into the ground, in the water tables and can eventually get into your drinking water. Especially if you live near a farm and you have a well. At any rate, it's worse for the environment and land than the treatment of the animals.

As far as treatment, I don't think you can put us (meat-eaters) in the same category as those who actually do the raising/shearing/slaughtering. Yes, we partake, so we encourage the slaughter of the animals for use in our casseroles. But your partaking of the veggies also encourage the use of DDT and other nasty pesticides that can kill natural wildlife.

So really, it's lose/lose, no matter what type of food you eat. Animal or vegetable, we all do our part.

This is a gross-over simplification of the issue without proper weighting of the variables. It's not lose/lose, there are smart ways to consume with both dietary choices.

However - Meat eating simply has a much greater impact on the environment.

Rethinking the Meat-Guzzler

[Icarusbop]

I eat meat and always will.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I don't 'get' vegetarians at all.

But really there's no argument against vegetarianism. Except that meat can taste so darn good.

Rubbish, we are designed to eat meat, hence the canine teeth for tearing meat.

Moral ground: There isn't any really, animals are there to be eaten ( 'if we aren't supposed to eat animals why are they made out of meat?') I'm prettry certain Lions or(insert big predator of your choice here) doesn't go on much of a guilt trip when they get to eat people... - sure it would be nice to have all the hens, sheep, pigs (etc.) running around in fields but they don't (for various reasons) and not eating meat because of it's history does not make you morally better IMO.

Helth reasons: I thought only have too much red meat was a health issue and 'meats' like chicken and fish can be very healthy (unless cooked in butter and covered with sauces... yum).

Exploiting animals: yeah well, that just tough - that happens when another organism is at the top (or very close) of the food chain. No guilt there either.

Other than that, I think vegetarianism makes sense regardless whether we talk about co2, health (for you or the animal), having enough food for everyone on this planet and so forth.

I find this interesting (and concede I know nothing of farming and stuff), I infer, that if everyone ate vegetables, there would be enough food for the whole world population... Not sure if this could be true since (I think) meat has a higher energy density than veg. So: if you filled every square inch of spare land with animals surely there would be enough food (meat) for everyone to eat anyway. the Co2 part does not add up as well as here (in the UK) Barretts are happily filling every sqaure inch of land with houses, even if everyone ate veg they would still have to ship it in from other countries, therefore more Co2 (and other pollutants).

[vivaldirules]

Originally Posted by Icarusbop

Moral ground: There isn't any really, animals are there to be eaten ( 'if we aren't supposed to eat animals why are they made out of meat?') I'm prettry certain Lions or(insert big predator of your choice here) doesn't go on much of a guilt trip when they get to eat people... - sure it would be nice to have all the hens, sheep, pigs (etc.) running around in fields but they don't (for various reasons) and not eating meat because of it's history does not make you morally better IMO.

(doggie hits buzzer) BBBZZZZ! Well, I don't agree with you here, but that's okay. I don't happen to think that because animals exist that they are somehow "intended" to be killed and eaten. For me, I'd prefer to avoid that. But I don't think morality is a competitive sport nor that I'm any judge of your own morality so if you see it differently, don't let me stop you.