Publisher Backlash Against Amazon - Page 4

poohbear_nc · 06-24-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smashwords

Poohbear, you might want to consider adding Smashwords to that list. We do multi-format, DRM-free ebooks. 85% net back to the author or publisher on sales through Smashwords.com. Works out to about 2X Amazon.

Best,
mark

Thanks for the reminder - I'll add you to my list - I'm continuing to contact the smaller publishers about their plans to offer ebooks.

Tuna · 06-24-2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa

Yes. Of course, no one else would have come along and sold books cheaply on the internet if Amazon hadn't been so uniquely evil.

I have some sympathy for them with regards to Amazon. It's the same as the malls and hypermarkets making it impossible for the small local shop to compete. You can't just roll your eyes and suggest (as others have done) that all they needed to do was 'behave like Amazon'.

There is a huge change going on in how we consume our media - and whilst we benefit from artificially low book prices, we suffer from a reduction of the ecosystem, at least in the short term.

In their case they may have had years during which their existing business model both paid their wages and allowed them to run the sort of business that they enjoyed. Now that business model is failing, expecting them to enthusiastically jump into an entirely different model of which they have no experience and little evidence of useful profit to be had is optimistic.

The people in the ebook business right now are pioneers. You have to applaud and support their pioneering spirit as the market matures. But you also have to accept that not everyone is a pioneer.

poohbear_nc · 06-24-2009, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisreed

The Rue Morgue publisher has been on mystery book forums I am on and they have a real grudge against amazon so it will probably be a cold day in hell before they have ebooks. They blame amazon for closing there store. I understand all that but ... They are just a mail catalog now . There physical store in Boulder had to close.

Even given their antipathy toward Amazon, Rue Morgue does sell their pbooks on Amazon. Seems a pretty poor excuse NOT to consider selling ebooks on Amazon - money is money - you're not going to increase readership and income by sulking and saying "It's not fair." If not through Amazon, there are a lot of other epublishing options for them.

RickyMaveety · 06-24-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

Here is the reply I received from Rue Morgue Press today:

"No plans to do so. There isn't much out there other than Amazon's Kindle (and Sony Reader) and we have rejected offers from Amazon, as of course Kindle is a proprietary property and so by letting them do it means that we give them an advantage over all the other bookstores. In fact, we're boycotting the World Mystery Convention because they're allowing Amazon to make a Kindle presentation."

There's the part that really bothers me. A publisher who is boycotting another company's right to free speech?? Now ... there's a little Catch 22.

poohbear_nc · 06-24-2009, 12:22 PM

Poisoned Pen Press currently has a few titles in the Amazon Kindle store.
Here is their response to my inquiry as to their plans to publish ebooks:

"We will be adding more titles to the kindle list. Although we don't have a specific time table, please keep checking Amazon for more titles."

This is another small publisher of mysteries & romance titles.

Will keep posting as I get responses from other companies!

Alisa · 06-24-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

I have some sympathy for them with regards to Amazon. It's the same as the malls and hypermarkets making it impossible for the small local shop to compete. You can't just roll your eyes and suggest (as others have done) that all they needed to do was 'behave like Amazon'.

I am not without sympathy and I'm not suggesting they behave like Amazon. What I said is that blaming an individual business as the source of your woes is not a good survival strategy. They don't have to be like Amazon but businesses have to find a way to keep going in a world where Amazon and big box stores exist or they have to let them go. Trying to move backwards won't work. They need to figure out what they can offer that the others don't and find a way to engage customers.

Quote:

There is a huge change going on in how we consume our media - and whilst we benefit from artificially low book prices, we suffer from a reduction of the ecosystem, at least in the short term.

In their case they may have had years during which their existing business model both paid their wages and allowed them to run the sort of business that they enjoyed. Now that business model is failing, expecting them to enthusiastically jump into an entirely different model of which they have no experience and little evidence of useful profit to be had is optimistic.

The people in the ebook business right now are pioneers. You have to applaud and support their pioneering spirit as the market matures. But you also have to accept that not everyone is a pioneer.

Once again you attribute many opinions to me that I didn't state. I don't expect enthusiasm, I value entrepreneurship and I'm well aware that not everyone will adapt. I simply state the practicalities of the matter. It looks like you largely agree with me, you just seem to read a lot of feelings into what I said that don't exist.

rhadin · 06-24-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

There's the part that really bothers me. A publisher who is boycotting another company's right to free speech?? Now ... there's a little Catch 22.

I'm not certain that they are boycotting free speech; rather they have decided that they do not wish to be subjected to Amazon's speech and have exercised their right of free assembly.

junkyardwillie · 06-24-2009, 01:37 PM

If the smell of books is holding them back you could also suggest a partnership with http://smellofbooks.com/

Boxdoc · 06-24-2009, 01:45 PM

Unfortunately, Darwin's Law applies to all things. You can choose to not evolve, but there are known consequences to that decision. Just because you don't like the law, don't "believe in it", or think it's not fair won't prevent evolution from occurring and it's the adaptable that usually survive.

Tuna · 06-24-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa

Once again you attribute many opinions to me that I didn't state.

Sorry, I didn't mean you to think that my comments were aimed at you in particular - your post simply started my train of thought.

sirbruce · 06-24-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

I have some sympathy for them with regards to Amazon. It's the same as the malls and hypermarkets making it impossible for the small local shop to compete. You can't just roll your eyes and suggest (as others have done) that all they needed to do was 'behave like Amazon'.

Sure you can. Do you cry for the poor workers in cottage industry that was replaced by industrialization?

True, behaving like Amazon might not have been an option for them. But any of them had the option of creating an Amazon, or growing their business to become big enough to compete with Amazon, or Wal-Mart, or whatever. The fact they developed a small business niche and inhabited it comfortably for 100 years before someone else came along and did the same thing better. That's not tragic; that's just business.

griffonwing · 06-24-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirbruce

Sure you can. Do you cry for the poor workers in cottage industry that was replaced by industrialization?

True, behaving like Amazon might not have been an option for them. But any of them had the option of creating an Amazon, or growing their business to become big enough to compete with Amazon, or Wal-Mart, or whatever. The fact they developed a small business niche and inhabited it comfortably for 100 years before someone else came along and did the same thing better. That's not tragic; that's just business.

Take me, for example. I would love to open up a small pipe and cigar store. I would cater ONLY to those types of tobacco, and none other.

Would I make more money if I decided to include cigarettes? Yes.

But I would choose not to, only because that is not they design plan of the business, and it's not the direction I wish to take it.

I am more than willing to be a small-time business owner. I would have all the free time I'd want. I'd still be making some profit to stay in business. I would garner a small, yet slowly growing list of clientele and a preferred customer base.

Dow Jones isn't the end-all/be-all of a successful business. Take me back in time to the cotton industry, and I would be a very happy bloke.

Elsi · 06-24-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffonwing

Take me, for example. I would love to open up a small pipe and cigar store. I would cater ONLY to those types of tobacco, and none other.

Would I make more money if I decided to include cigarettes? Yes.

But I would choose not to, only because that is not they design plan of the business, and it's not the direction I wish to take it.

Your problem is going to be finding enough pipe and cigar smokers in the vicinity of Harrison, AR, to keep a brick-and-mortar store afloat. Now this kind of specialty store would work well in a metropolitan area. So, if you're going to be able to be profitable, you'd be compelled to expand to mail-order or Internet sales. Or, you relocate to one of those major cities where you'd expect to find a critical mass of customers.

griffonwing · 06-24-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elsi

Your problem is going to be finding enough pipe and cigar smokers in the vicinity of Harrison, AR, to keep a brick-and-mortar store afloat. Now this kind of specialty store would work well in a metropolitan area. So, if you're going to be able to be profitable, you'd be compelled to expand to mail-order or Internet sales. Or, you relocate to one of those major cities where you'd expect to find a critical mass of customers.

Correct. Hence the reason why my dream is still only a dream. Then again, Hwy 65 runs between Springfield MO and Little Rock AR, so we constantly have thru-traffic.

I would get a lot of travellers and professional businessmen. Also, I would add a gentlemans club in the back. No, not a strip club, a true old-fashioned English gentleman's club. A place for professionals to come and smoke, network, relax, etc. Men only. Membership dues would get you access.

Ooops, I think I inadvertantly hijacked this thread. Apologies. I put the OFF TOPIC icon up.

snape · 06-24-2009, 06:03 PM

FWIW, Cemetery Dance Publications is looking at testing out the ebook waters at some point (funds and resources allowing), though I expect they'll continue to produce top quality pbook editions, too. It's unfortunate that titles controlled by Rue Morgue won't be available (legally) in electronic format, but at least other niche publishers are interested in learning more.

06-24-2009, 12:22 PM	#50
poohbear_nc Bah! Humbug! Posts: 62,884 Karma: 135239851 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Durham, NC Device: Every Kindle Ever Made & To Be Made!	Poisoned Pen Press has Positive Response Poisoned Pen Press currently has a few titles in the Amazon Kindle store. Here is their response to my inquiry as to their plans to publish ebooks: "We will be adding more titles to the kindle list. Although we don't have a specific time table, please keep checking Amazon for more titles." This is another small publisher of mysteries & romance titles. Will keep posting as I get responses from other companies!

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06-24-2009, 01:37 PM	#53
junkyardwillie Addict Posts: 316 Karma: 570 Join Date: Apr 2008 Device: Onyx Note Pro, Kobo H20 and iPad	If the smell of books is holding them back you could also suggest a partnership with http://smellofbooks.com/

06-24-2009, 01:45 PM	#54
Boxdoc Member Posts: 23 Karma: 44 Join Date: Dec 2008 Device: Sony PRS - 700, Kindle 2	Unfortunately, Darwin's Law applies to all things. You can choose to not evolve, but there are known consequences to that decision. Just because you don't like the law, don't "believe in it", or think it's not fair won't prevent evolution from occurring and it's the adaptable that usually survive.

06-24-2009, 06:03 PM	#60
snape Language Lover Posts: 111 Karma: 71544 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Current: PRS-350, Kindle PW // Previous: PRS-505, Kindle 1, Kindle 2	FWIW, Cemetery Dance Publications is looking at testing out the ebook waters at some point (funds and resources allowing), though I expect they'll continue to produce top quality pbook editions, too. It's unfortunate that titles controlled by Rue Morgue won't be available (legally) in electronic format, but at least other niche publishers are interested in learning more.