Choice between epub and LRF, which do you use?

[Lemurion]

I was finally able to replace my PRS-505 and while I prefer LRF in general, I find I get better ePubs from eReader books than I do LRFs. (I could probably get better LRFs than I do but I can get readable ePubs relatively easily so that's what I do.)

[Faenad]

I'm sticking with LRF for the moment, for the full justification and page numbers.

But if Epub support on the 505 was improved on these points, I would switch to it at once.

[Curly]

In terms of formatting on the screen, I am happy with either epub or lrf. Because of increasing geographic restrictions and the fact that most UK ebookstores sell epub and not lrf, I suspect I will be buying most of my books in epub in the future.

[Valloric]

I would just like to say that practically every single complaint against "epub" in this thread has actually been a complaint against Adobe Digital Editions which runs on the Sony Reader. The right-hand side page numbers, the peculiar bottom page numbering, the lack of full justification and a somewhat lacking display quality --> ADE!

Stop blaming the format for the problems of a single application.

Truth be told, Adobe has updated DE to support full justification, but Sony has so far been unwilling to provide us with a firmware update that would deliver this new feature to the Sony Reader owners.

But in the end, I rather like ADE. Sure, it's got problems. But they're making an effort and are improving. Sadly, Sony doesn't care.

(Admittedly, the page margin numbering is just an intrinsically retarded idea that never should have seen the light of day.)

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Valloric

I would just like to say that practically every single complaint against "epub" in this thread has actually been a complaint against Adobe Digital Editions which runs on the Sony Reader. The right-hand side page numbers, the peculiar bottom page numbering, the lack of full justification and a somewhat lacking display quality --> ADE!

Stop blaming the format for the problems of a single application.

Unfortunately, when Adobe are the only people who produce an ADE renderer, it's difficult for the casual user to separate shortcomings in the rendering application from those in the format. For non-experts, it's simply a case that "ePub on the Sony doesn't support full justification".

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Ankh

The "true" (font within epub file, not on device) embedding is also easy.

You have to use OpenType fonts, for example: Gentium.

1. If you haven't done so yet, check ePub Format Construction Guide

2.Add something like this to *.opf:


3. create "fonts" directory and copy your fonts there

4. And an entry like this into css/*.css file will make it a default font:


5. Create the epub file:


And you have a slightly larger epub file that does not depend on fonts installed on the device.

Actually, when I embed the fonts into the ePub file itself, I don't have to change the OPF file at all. All I modify is the CSS and add the font directory at the same level as the CSS. It works fine. So no need to go messing with the .opf file at all to embed fonts. That just complicates matters.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Kris777

I prefer ePub too and I never used LRF...

But then again, you don't have a Sony Reader PRS-505 or PRS-700. So of course you'd have no need for LRF.

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, when I embed the fonts into the ePub file itself, I don't have to change the OPF file at all. All I modify is the CSS and add the font directory at the same level as the CSS. It works fine. So no need to go messing with the .opf file at all to embed fonts. That just complicates matters.

Well, that might work on ADE, but it is not "kosher" way of doing things.

Acording to the spec:

1.4.1.2: Publication Conformance

A collection of files is a conforming OPS Publication if and only if:

1. it includes a single OPF Package Document that obeys the Package Conformance Requirements listed above; and
2. the OPF Package Document includes one and only one manifest entry corresponding to each other file in the OPS Publication excluding the file or files that make up the OPF Package Document itself;

So, if you do not declare fonts in the OPF and have a manifest entry for each of them, that is not conforming publication. Hence, it might not work on all ePub readers.

Your call.

[Renaldo]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Unfortunately, when Adobe are the only people who produce an ADE renderer, it's difficult for the casual user to separate shortcomings in the rendering application from those in the format. For non-experts, it's simply a case that "ePub on the Sony doesn't support full justification".

I don't think it's even a matter for the 'casual user' or 'non-expert'. Regardless of what the capabilities are of the format, anyone who uses the Sony has to deal with the limitations and end result. ePub could write new and original novels based entirely upon my preferences, give me winning lottery numbers, and help me win at Scrabble, but if Sony doesn't allow any of these features to work, then to me and anyone else using a Sony reader, they're a non-issue.

The criticisms in this thread are about ePub as seen on the Sony readers. My knowing what ePub is capable of doesn't change that I don't like reading them on the Sony as compared to LRF, and I'd guess that goes for most of the other pro-LRFers here. I'd rather choose an inferior format that has a better implementation than a superior format with an inferior implementation.

[Valloric]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, when I embed the fonts into the ePub file itself, I don't have to change the OPF file at all. All I modify is the CSS and add the font directory at the same level as the CSS. It works fine. So no need to go messing with the .opf file at all to embed fonts. That just complicates matters.

That's a rather horrible way of doing it. It goes completely against the spec. If you're just doing it on your own books, go right ahead. But please don't upload non-conforming epubs to the forum's e-book section (I'm not saying you have done so previously).

There's a very good chance that such epubs will break on other devices. The whole point of the manifest section of the OPF is that one can parse it and get a list of all the files in the publication and not have to go through the entire directory tree.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Valloric

The whole point of the manifest section of the OPF is that one can parse it and get a list of all the files in the publication and not have to go through the entire directory tree.

But that's not true. One does not list embedded graphics in the manifest.

[netseeker]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But that's not true. One does not list embedded graphics in the manifest.

Why not? According to the OPF-spec one *should* list all graphics (as well as font files) in the manifest.

2.3: Manifest

The required manifest must provides a list of all the files that are parts of the publication (e.g. Content Documents, style sheets, image files, any embedded font files, any included schemas).

[Wario]

When I got my PRS-505 I started off with epub. But then I download a ebook that I wanted, it just didn't look right, then change that to LRFs, look even better, even the font is the right size for me. Now all my ebook are turn to LRF.

But it a pain in the ass, as I have to take the DRM off, then convert.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by netseeker

Why not? According to the OPF-spec one *should* list all graphics (as well as font files) in the manifest.

I don't know if ePub does the same, but with Mobi (which also uses OPF files), if you include your graphics files in the manifest, they end up being included twice in the book. The fact that they are linked to is sufficient to build them into the book. I know that ePub is different, in that there's no book "built" as such, but do any adverse effects result from omitting the graphics files from the manifest?

[netseeker]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I don't know if ePub does the same, but with Mobi (which also uses OPF files), if you include your graphics files in the manifest, they end up being included twice in the book. The fact that they are linked to is sufficient to build them into the book.

I know that issue with Mobi (very annoying btw.).

Originally Posted by HarryT

I know that ePub is different, in that there's no book "built" as such, but do any adverse effects result from omitting the graphics files from the manifest?

I will test it today in the evening (at home). At the moment i'm not sure what effects may occur if the graphics are omitted from the manifest.