Wired Reviews the Kindle DX - Good, but Expensive - Page 2

astra · 06-11-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Similarly with the DX, you're charging people $500 for the convenience, but the alternative option is a $400 laptop if you want to read electronically or a $5 book if you don't mind carrying around your current reads

Laptop is not an option at all for anyone who is after eInk because of eyestrain.

$5 books? Well considering the size it is geared more towards technical lit and the cheapest 1.000 pages heavy tech book costs at least $40-50...so....

Tuna · 06-11-2009, 12:26 PM

astra - agreed, but my point is that there are a relatively small number of people who have at least ten heavy tech books that they personally have to carry around on a daily basis, or who read heavily enough to care about LCD v.s eInk. $500 is as much as some companies will spend on an office worker's entire computer.

This isn't to take away the fact that the DX is a great sounding device. I'd love to have an 8" or 9" e-reader so I could carry my tech books and leisure reading around with ease. However, at $500 for a single function device that is locked into a supplier and likely to be outdated within 12 months, it is way too expensive for the vast majority of readers, whether they're reading for business or leisure.

If e-readers take off, I'd expect something like this to cost $250 within 18 months or so, and a 6" reader to be less than $150. Amazon have made the market attractive to technology suppliers, so it's not suprising that Visplex are beginning to see serious uptake and some competitive displays from other manufacturers. That'll have a big effect on their production and will put a lot of pressure on their prices.

DaleDe · 06-11-2009, 12:40 PM

Based on your criteria, Tuna. I don't think eBook readers will ever take off. You are clearly not their target audience. Perhaps 5 years down the line but 18 months is too short. The focus in the next 18 months is likely touch screens, increased contrast, color, increased ruggedness, but not cost reduction.

Dale

HarryT · 06-11-2009, 01:09 PM

There are an awful lot of people out there for whom $500 falls into the "impulse buy" price range. I don't think that Amazon are going to have the slightest difficulty in selling all the DX's that they can lay their hands on.

Tuna · 06-11-2009, 05:35 PM

Dale - not at all. The 'open' devices that Netronix and Jinke are producing are heading rapidly in the right direction, both in features and price. They don't lock you in, don't try to do things that really aren't necessary and, because they're selling across worldwide markets, they are benefiting from evolving production with continuously reducing prices.

There are suddenly quite a few players in the market now, so the Kindle is far from being the only option - and more choices are going to arrive over the next 12 months or so. Certainly some will differentiate themselves with touch screens and so on, but the refresh rates on e-Ink make such interfaces a compromise at best. It seems reasonable that others will focus on the core functionality - just making it easy to read books - and reduce prices dramatically in the process.

Whatever happens, compare what a $500 'impulse purchase' gets you from Amazon, with the same money spent on something from Apple, Asus, Sony and others.

sirbruce · 06-11-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Whatever happens, compare what a $500 'impulse purchase' gets you from Amazon, with the same money spent on something from Apple, Asus, Sony and others.

Right now, it gets stuff you can't get on any other device... that's why Amazon is winning.

Tuna · 06-12-2009, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirbruce

Right now, it gets stuff you can't get on any other device... that's why Amazon is winning.

Anything from the other competitors will get you the ability to read ebooks, a better web browser, MP3 player, movie playback, slicker user interface, better input (either keyboard or apple's stunning touch interface), download alternative apps, easy memory expansion, wifi, phone (either 3G or Skype), colour display, fast screen refresh, backlit screen, full document editing... all that the Kindle offers is an easy download service and a daylight readable screen. Sure they're good features, but right now you're sat inside, in front of a compter connected to the internet, so it's not as if you cannot survive without them.

It's not a question of 'winning' here, it's a question of whether the DX is a mainstream product. I don't think it is in any sense of the word, and at that price it's something even specialist users would have to think about. There's a lot of room for other manufacturers to come in and lead the market.

Gideon · 06-12-2009, 05:54 AM

Yeah, except that whole "having a book selection" thing. That's kind of relevant.

Tuna · 06-12-2009, 06:03 AM

You can browse bookstores on the iPhone, netbooks etc. and most of the devices have space to download quite a few (and the ability to expand the memory with SD cards). What does the DX do that is different to that?

Gideon · 06-12-2009, 06:10 AM

I'll give you the iphone/ipod touch (though not really because I've no interest, and lots don't, of reading books on a tiny LCD) but not the rest... Book selection for anything but best sellers and genre fiction is terrible everywhere but the Amazon store (and if the have something, it is often much more expensive.)

Tuna · 06-12-2009, 06:18 AM

So the main selling point for the Kindle is the Amazon store?

Gideon · 06-12-2009, 06:21 AM

I'd say the priorities of an ebook reader begin with books. If you can't get the books you want, it doesn't matter what tech you have.

After that.. I'd say everything else really comes in a distant second.

Tuna · 06-12-2009, 06:30 AM

And being tied to Amazon is preferrable to choosing from Borders, Waterstones, OReilly, Google Books et. al.?

Gideon · 06-12-2009, 06:36 AM

I don't like being tied, but I like having affordable options. Almost anything those stores have, Amazon has but cheaper. And more importantly, those stores DON'T have. I have no loyalty, but an ebook reader that was limited to those other options wouldn't be worth owning for me. I just looked up the last few things I've purchased, out of five of them only one was available in another store beside Amazon's. And that's only because I made a rare fiction purchase.

If all you read is public domain and fantasy or scifi than you can get whatever you want and be fine. If you read non-fiction or anything not so common, you've only got one real option. Would that it wasn't so, but it is.

Anything Google books has for public domain (that the Sony would have access to) I can put on my DX, too.

Tuna · 06-12-2009, 06:53 AM

Thanks for sharing that, I'm fascinated by the ebook market. As it's still at a very early stage, it seems to me that it's going to change rapidly over the next couple of years. Understanding what people want/expect from the market perhaps gives an indication of where things are heading.

Personally my work involves a lot of 'early adopting' of new technology, so when it comes to personal electronics I'm probably a bit more reticent to jump in until I've got a good sense of where things are going. My phone, laptop etc. all typically last three or four years between upgrades as I try to choose well spec'd but stable technology over the flavour of the month stuff.

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06-11-2009, 12:26 PM	#17
Tuna Zealot Posts: 114 Karma: 325 Join Date: May 2009 Device: Cool-ER	astra - agreed, but my point is that there are a relatively small number of people who have at least ten heavy tech books that they personally have to carry around on a daily basis, or who read heavily enough to care about LCD v.s eInk. $500 is as much as some companies will spend on an office worker's entire computer. This isn't to take away the fact that the DX is a great sounding device. I'd love to have an 8" or 9" e-reader so I could carry my tech books and leisure reading around with ease. However, at $500 for a single function device that is locked into a supplier and likely to be outdated within 12 months, it is way too expensive for the vast majority of readers, whether they're reading for business or leisure. If e-readers take off, I'd expect something like this to cost $250 within 18 months or so, and a 6" reader to be less than $150. Amazon have made the market attractive to technology suppliers, so it's not suprising that Visplex are beginning to see serious uptake and some competitive displays from other manufacturers. That'll have a big effect on their production and will put a lot of pressure on their prices.

06-11-2009, 12:40 PM	#18
DaleDe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,470 Karma: 13095790 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Grass Valley, CA Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7	Based on your criteria, Tuna. I don't think eBook readers will ever take off. You are clearly not their target audience. Perhaps 5 years down the line but 18 months is too short. The focus in the next 18 months is likely touch screens, increased contrast, color, increased ruggedness, but not cost reduction. Dale

06-11-2009, 01:09 PM	#19
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	There are an awful lot of people out there for whom $500 falls into the "impulse buy" price range. I don't think that Amazon are going to have the slightest difficulty in selling all the DX's that they can lay their hands on.

06-11-2009, 05:35 PM	#20
Tuna Zealot Posts: 114 Karma: 325 Join Date: May 2009 Device: Cool-ER	Dale - not at all. The 'open' devices that Netronix and Jinke are producing are heading rapidly in the right direction, both in features and price. They don't lock you in, don't try to do things that really aren't necessary and, because they're selling across worldwide markets, they are benefiting from evolving production with continuously reducing prices. There are suddenly quite a few players in the market now, so the Kindle is far from being the only option - and more choices are going to arrive over the next 12 months or so. Certainly some will differentiate themselves with touch screens and so on, but the refresh rates on e-Ink make such interfaces a compromise at best. It seems reasonable that others will focus on the core functionality - just making it easy to read books - and reduce prices dramatically in the process. Whatever happens, compare what a $500 'impulse purchase' gets you from Amazon, with the same money spent on something from Apple, Asus, Sony and others.

06-12-2009, 05:54 AM	#23
Gideon Wearer of Pants Posts: 1,050 Karma: 7634 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norman, OK Device: Amazon Kindle DX / iPhone	Yeah, except that whole "having a book selection" thing. That's kind of relevant.

06-12-2009, 06:03 AM	#24
Tuna Zealot Posts: 114 Karma: 325 Join Date: May 2009 Device: Cool-ER	You can browse bookstores on the iPhone, netbooks etc. and most of the devices have space to download quite a few (and the ability to expand the memory with SD cards). What does the DX do that is different to that?

06-12-2009, 06:10 AM	#25
Gideon Wearer of Pants Posts: 1,050 Karma: 7634 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norman, OK Device: Amazon Kindle DX / iPhone	I'll give you the iphone/ipod touch (though not really because I've no interest, and lots don't, of reading books on a tiny LCD) but not the rest... Book selection for anything but best sellers and genre fiction is terrible everywhere but the Amazon store (and if the have something, it is often much more expensive.)

06-12-2009, 06:18 AM	#26
Tuna Zealot Posts: 114 Karma: 325 Join Date: May 2009 Device: Cool-ER	So the main selling point for the Kindle is the Amazon store?

06-12-2009, 06:21 AM	#27
Gideon Wearer of Pants Posts: 1,050 Karma: 7634 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norman, OK Device: Amazon Kindle DX / iPhone	I'd say the priorities of an ebook reader begin with books. If you can't get the books you want, it doesn't matter what tech you have. After that.. I'd say everything else really comes in a distant second.

06-12-2009, 06:30 AM	#28
Tuna Zealot Posts: 114 Karma: 325 Join Date: May 2009 Device: Cool-ER	And being tied to Amazon is preferrable to choosing from Borders, Waterstones, OReilly, Google Books et. al.?

06-12-2009, 06:36 AM	#29
Gideon Wearer of Pants Posts: 1,050 Karma: 7634 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norman, OK Device: Amazon Kindle DX / iPhone	I don't like being tied, but I like having affordable options. Almost anything those stores have, Amazon has but cheaper. And more importantly, those stores DON'T have. I have no loyalty, but an ebook reader that was limited to those other options wouldn't be worth owning for me. I just looked up the last few things I've purchased, out of five of them only one was available in another store beside Amazon's. And that's only because I made a rare fiction purchase. If all you read is public domain and fantasy or scifi than you can get whatever you want and be fine. If you read non-fiction or anything not so common, you've only got one real option. Would that it wasn't so, but it is. Anything Google books has for public domain (that the Sony would have access to) I can put on my DX, too.

06-12-2009, 06:53 AM	#30
Tuna Zealot Posts: 114 Karma: 325 Join Date: May 2009 Device: Cool-ER	Thanks for sharing that, I'm fascinated by the ebook market. As it's still at a very early stage, it seems to me that it's going to change rapidly over the next couple of years. Understanding what people want/expect from the market perhaps gives an indication of where things are heading. Personally my work involves a lot of 'early adopting' of new technology, so when it comes to personal electronics I'm probably a bit more reticent to jump in until I've got a good sense of where things are going. My phone, laptop etc. all typically last three or four years between upgrades as I try to choose well spec'd but stable technology over the flavour of the month stuff.