Astak Mentor eBook readers with WiFi and Touchscreen (read-only)

[sirbruce]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

Robert, I took my EZ Reader to the doctor's office yesterday. We spent more time talking about it than we did me! My doctor was fascinated. I showed her all about how it worked, and she thought it was the coolest gadget she'd ever seen.

We had a thread on the Kindle board about reactions from medical workers. Every doctor or nurse I've shown them to seem very enthusiastic. These people deal with a lot of paper every day, carrying it from one place to another, and anything that is small and lightweight they can carry instead to cut down on that is very appealing to them. I'd imagine PDF support is a must, and many offices do not have their records electronic yet, but the day is coming where this sort of "PADD" device is something every doctor will carry with them.

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Touchscreen costs about $70 to a manufacturer.
Wi-Fi costs about $17 to a manufacturer
3G costs about $38 to a manufacturer without the PLAN COSTS or the SIM card

These costs are TO the manufacturer to actually install. The cost is magnified for retail price.

prove it...pure and simple. Post actual direct from the factory invoices.

No way a wifi card costs $17 from the mfg. Maybe if you order six, if suppose so. Then again, a fast search shows one can buy NEW mini-pci wifi cards for $5 all day long.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...All-Categories

There are oodles of touch displays to be had on ebay for about $50 and under for 9"-10" displays. Again that is RETAIL.

Nokia has $229 devices which have WIFI AND TOUCH SCREENS AND A KEYBOARD.

http://www.nokiausa.com/link?cid=PLAIN_TEXT_607318

Now granted there is the difference in the display tech, but consider, given the touch interface, it's a wash at worst. Especially as WE KNOW WHAT THE KINDLE DISPLAY COSTS ($60) since it does not include a touch interface which you claim adds $70 at the mfg level...so lets say a display on an N8x0 device runs maybe $50 including the touch interface. But using your numbers the display should be around $100...not a chance...I doubt it costs them $30 for the whole display.

Look, we already have seen your tendency to pull false info out of your, well you know where, in an effort to knock a competing device people were looking into...so, credibility of your claims are suspect on the best of days...until devices show up. And when we see competing devices for under $200 with many of the features you claim are too expensive, we'll talk.

Oh, and as to the claim of cost to assemble the device...we know the Kindle costs $8.66 to assemble. That is fixed wether something like wifi is present or not...and since the Kindle has 3G, it is safe to assume adding wifi instead will not alter the conversion cost per unit.

And in case your next argument is economy of scale...well, as the end consumer, my answer to that is, well, that is Astak's problem. Either produce a competative product or go away. Harsh as that sounds we consumers are fed that line from the other direction every single day. We already know, unless your were again in error with your own words, the engineers you claim to employ earn about US$800/mo. So the money is not going to them.

You should understand, from the people who have your EZReader, I think it is a great device. And I think your heart is in the right place....but you just keep saying such stoopid things... And I am joking when I write that, it was a line in a movie called "The Secret of My Success" when the two main characters are arguing about, ironically, a business plan...but the way you run around into other threads to knock the potential competition with, to put it kindly, misinformation/FUD is just beyond funny. Because for some reason you fail to see how bad that makes your whole company look. Sort of like stepping over dollars to pick up pennies.

Presenting helpful facts impartially is great...but finding ways to do it without using FUD toward the competition is not that easy...but it is worth learning as it will bring in more dollars than the few pennies picked up via the FUD marketing plan.

For example...to state a company uses a lower grade component, even if they do, is, well not bright. But to remind people there exist different grade components so make sure of what is being used before making a purchase decision, well, that is the right way to do it...helping customers/clients educate themselves is always the better way to long term loyal relationships. Scaring them away from the competition never works long term because fear <> respect.

[Wolfgan]

I agree those costs seem high for industry standards. iSuppli analysis for the Pre (as an example of recent pricing) shows wi-fi at less than $5, a display with touchscreen at less than $40 (let's say that a larger touchscreen layer only for an ebook goes by half of that).

http://www.isuppli.com/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=20170
Regards, Wolf.

[emellaich]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

prove it...
[snip]
Look, we already have seen your tendency to pull false info out of your, well you know where, in an effort to knock a competing device people were looking into...so, credibility of your claims are suspect on the best of days...

Brecklundin, your post has some great information, and you have added something positive to our debate. Is there a way you can share that information without pulling the conversation down?

Right now, we have a distributor's rep who is willing to share information with us. I've been around the thread since the beginning and I do know the changes we have seen. Frankly, if you will go back to the beginning of the thread you will see posts by me where I was doubtful about Astak's ability to deliver as it hoped. On the other hand I've also watched the Bookeen discussions and I see the frustration that occurs when your suppliers don't talk to you at all

Admittedly, when you get a peek at discussions in development, things are going to change. Also, Robert is relatively new to the ebook world, and even though he is on the supplier side its going to be hard for one person to always be right with an entire community of fanatics watching his every move.

However, I would rather assume goodwill and honest differences than to move to attack mode. For example, earlier in this thread it was clear that Robert hadn't been aware of, or even in touch with PixelQi. We informed him about their technology and he was able to meet with them and hold partnership discussions. Now, I have been following PixelQi since they were founded, but I don't have the stature to hold talks with them.

There may be times when we as a community have things to teach Robert. However, we do not have his contacts into the manufacturing community. By bringing our knowledge together with Robert's position in the industry we were able to kick start a conversation that can only have positive results for the industry.

Let's pretend that Robert has had the wool pulled over his eyes by his suppliers. Although Astak has still not delivered a sub-$200 unit, the price point they hit with Fry's (was it $229 on sale?) has still been among the best in the industry for an e-ink device. You provided some great facts that he can use to negotiate better prices, which will hopefully result in better prices for us.

On the other hand, it is possible that Robert knows something about the particular type of components needed for these devices. Then he can teach us about what to look for. It's only as a third choice that we have to assume that there is actual ill-intent on his part. I would rather see us assume the positive and move forward from there.

Brecklundin, aking the great research you provided, I would like to reposition your comments to Robert ...
==================================

Robert, thanks for the numbers on your manufacturer's costs as shown below:
[Quote]Touchscreen costs about $70 to a manufacturer.
Wi-Fi costs about $17 to a manufacturer
3G costs about $38 to a manufacturer without the PLAN COSTS or the SIM card[/quote[]

However, I am confused by these prices. For example, I know that you can get mini-pci wifi cards for $5 at places like this:

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...All-Categories

I've also seen touch displays on ebay for for $50 and under for 9"-10" displays.

As another point of comparison, there are the Nokia devices with wifi, a touch screen, and a keyboard for $229 retail:

http://www.nokiausa.com/link?cid=PLAIN_TEXT_607318

Can you help us understand the disparity between these retail prices and the component OEM prices that you see?

=======================

Brecklundin,

I can see from your note that you do respect Robert's attempt to work with us -- you do clearly state this. This may well be simply one of those cases where the tone feels different to at least one reader (me) than you intended when you sent the message. I apologize if I misconstrued your intent . At the same time, I have seen other threads on other boards organized around the participation of an 'insider' and I have seen the flow of information wither when we alienated our pipeline to the inside. I don't want to hold back on the facts, but I hope we can keep the conversation civil.

[phenomshel]

Emelliach, I totally agree with what you say here.

[catsittingstill]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Either produce a competative (sic) product or go away.

No! Don't go away!

I like reading what you have to say, and I like that you listen to us.

Please stay.

[jobin007007]

deleted

[etherspin]

with significant actual controls i think touchscreen becomes a huge waste, especially considering these are reading devices and the pinnacle of their design is e-ink and its contrast and readability (which the touchscreen reduces) , if it adds a huge price premium i think its a costly gimmick , give me wifi or cellular connection over it any day

[pkovak]

Well, look at it this way: You may want to write your own text on it, not with some keyboard, but with a "pen". I guess it won't be long until someone come up with a software that lets you make changes to text you read - imagine underlining important parts in newspapers which you want to read later, writing your comments in a book, or simply having a shopping list and marking what you already have. For example. I think eReaders - or devices based on eReaders - will make huge impact on us and the way we work. They are not for all, of course, but they offer a chance. Writing and printing was one of the most crucial developements in any human civilisation (right after language), we have a possibility to spread literature with speed and cost which would be unthinkable mere 100 years ago.

[griffonwing]

Originally Posted by pkovak

Well, look at it this way: You may want to write your own text on it, not with some keyboard, but with a "pen". I guess it won't be long until someone come up with a software that lets you make changes to text you read - imagine underlining important parts in newspapers which you want to read later, writing your comments in a book, or simply having a shopping list and marking what you already have. For example. I think eReaders - or devices based on eReaders - will make huge impact on us and the way we work. They are not for all, of course, but they offer a chance. Writing and printing was one of the most crucial developements in any human civilisation (right after language), we have a possibility to spread literature with speed and cost which would be unthinkable mere 100 years ago.

That is all well and good. But before coming out with a product that does everything, come out with a solid, basic unit. No frills, No extras. No 3G, No Wi-fi, No Touchscreen. Just a solid reader. Incorporate basic things for reading, such as FORMAT:support for non-DRM books, pdf, html, jpg, txt, etc.., EASABILITY: Multiple folder-in-folder support (Fantasy/Dragonlance/multiple books or Fastasy/Pratchett/Xanth/multiple books), zipped formats such as .cbz (which I think is zip), or .cbr (which I think is rar), user-replaceable battery, SPEED: Have some tight code with little chance of any bugs due to extraneous gimmicks, fast Epson controller, and AESTHETICS, button placement, page-turning, user-mapping options.

Even if the PDF support is not perfect straight out of that gate, you shouldn't let that stop you from releasing the reader. Perfection can come in the form of updates.

Once there is a solid base unit, and you begin to have a more solid, wider customer base, THEN you can start working on new iterations and models with varying degrees of extras.

There are many people who want a solid base unit, of which I am one. I don't really understand a company who is literally throwing away hundreds of sales per month, if not thousands, because they want to put out a perfect unit that will cater to everyone.

Would it be handy to make a grocery list on your ereader and check things off as you put them in your basket? Yes, of course! But I do not want to wait months more just to get a basic reader.

Don't worry, Robertb, I'm not trying to be pushy in any way. Most of this I've stated before in several posts on this thread. I suppose I just feel a bit antsy waiting.

And let me also restate the obvious: I do not want you to leave this thread either.

[pkovak]

I agree that there should be solid eReader with good software, without functions like touchscreen or 3G. Such models are already there or on the way - if you want Epson controller and you don't want to be bound to one online shop, it will be few more weeks or months, top. Others, like me, are waiting for more functions because I think I will use it. I may be wrong, who knows...

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

We had a thread on the Kindle board about reactions from medical workers. Every doctor or nurse I've shown them to seem very enthusiastic. These people deal with a lot of paper every day, carrying it from one place to another, and anything that is small and lightweight they can carry instead to cut down on that is very appealing to them. I'd imagine PDF support is a must, and many offices do not have their records electronic yet, but the day is coming where this sort of "PADD" device is something every doctor will carry with them.

I agree with all you said. You definitely write well; and I agree that Medical is something I want to follow up upon.

[Robertb]

Dear All:

Brecklundin is a well-intentioned and intelligent poster to this thread. Unfortunately, when he means well, he loves to argue and jump to conclusions. I welcome all comments; but I always try to stay out of major arguments as they are never-ending.

I am NOT an expert. When I started this thread I did it to try to present what info I can impart. Pricing comes from my factories and I quote what they tell me. I do not want to get embroiled in arguments or fights. What I impart on my posts is as I know it to be.

But, there will always be people who will dispute anything or want to argue over seemingly innocuous points. I do this post as a person and not as "the voice of the expert". MANY of you actually come up with far better ideas than I do and know eBook Readers better. I try to provide Insider Information that I get and to answer any problems or questions you might have. This does not mean that I will post invoices or argue over what my factory tells me are the costs. I just do not like faulty info getting out and Brecklundin quotes costs that differ from what I have been told. That does not make him bad... it means he disagrees and he has that right.

I try to see the good in anybody and I know Brecklundin is a smart and capable person. BUT... the purpose of this thread is not to argue but to put out info as I know it to be true. There are a lot of things I could argue and what would be served by that? There are far too many good people on this thread who just want to see my answers and understand about Astak's devices. Many simply are trying to get an idea on what is coming and what is available.

Brecklundin, thank you for your comments. I may not agree with what you say but I am still happy that you say it. One thing I will say: at least I do listen and reply. TRY THIS with Sony or Amazon or Cool-er. You are picking an argument with the only one who is available.

[Robertb]

Jinke is sending us two 5 inch devices that could well become the EZ Reader "PocketPro". That is my name at present. Anybody that has a better name that implies a "smaller device with good features and exceptional durability" I am open. Someone already named the EZ Reader "TRUE" which is a 9.7 inch (latest update from Jinke is that should come in October as they have NOT had their orders filled yet for the flexi screen).

We need to take a look at this 5 inch and see if Astak should carry it. We are evaluating it and I will post in my blog what I see in it. I have NO idea yet about price or when we may release it. I only know we are interested and we LOVE the 6 inch EZ Reader. A 5 inch is a natural progression IF we can get the cost down to where most have said they want it.

Also... I have heard from both Jinke and Netronix that they have the license now for Adobe Digital Editions. Fictionwise eReader's SDK is also moving ahead quickly now. We aim to post both of these formats for download on our new website as soon as all is ported and trouble-free and the new website (www.goEZeBook.com) opens.

The website is essentially finshed and we are waiting on Barnes&Noble to place thir signature on the agreement (supposedly a formality).

OH, Astak has also been told that they have been approved by Google for the Google 500,000 free eBook library. We want to create a search engine and put that up on the new website. 500,000 eBooks is a chore to sort thru and we hope the new search engine will make this a lot easier for you.

[AJ Starr]

RobertB,

In reference to your upcoming website: www.goEZebook.com, I know it is not up and running yet. However, everytime I check it out, I get the default site for "godaddy" essentially wanting to sell that name.

I assume your company has purchased the URL, shouldn't you have your own, for want of a better name, Title page there.

What I see is that the URL goezebook.com is still for sale. I assume this is not correct though, since you say ASTAK has it.

AJ