Apple... Potential Kindle Killer?

[kamm]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

They are low power for Intel chipsets, but don't yet compare to ARM chipsets. Atom is 3-5 W vs < 1 W for ARM. The ARM chips can also suspend to a very low power state, Intel's "Moorestown” version of the Atom (due later this year) is supposed to drastically reduce idle power in an attempt to compete.

However, as you say, with a 10" screen the screen might dominate the power budget. If so, then Atom would make sense.

It's not the CPU that eats most of the power, it's the rest of the machine, first and foremost your LCD display hence the push for low-power alternatives (OLEDs.)

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Would it not be the screen that would be the main "power hog" rather than the CPU? I understand that the Intel "Atom" CPUs used in netbook devices are pretty low power.

A lower-power screen is also a dollar hog, whereas a lower power CPU adds battery life while lowering costs, which better serves the netbook ethos.

Originally Posted by HarryT

So Apple may be coming out with a tablet computer. It will be a "tablet Mac" as opposed to a "notebook Mac". Is this really something to get excited about?

The hardware will very likely be a "tablet Mac" as you say, but the reason for excitement is that they will very likely focus on and expand a largely unexploited niche of the average consumer's personal electronic ecology.

Originally Posted by Argel

Prepare to be hated. You should know that every Apple product carries with it a moral obligation for people to get excited.

The only thing more exciting than a new Apple product is Steve Jobs demonstrating a new Apple product.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The only people who get excited over Apple products like that are people who have a "fanboy wank" every time Apple is even rumored to be coming out with something new.

I know, it's not like they have a track record for bringing a mob of consumers into formerly niche markets by developing an interface and feature set that appeals to broader audiences. Why would we, devotees of a niche technology that has mostly languished for decades, be remotely interested that they've turned their eye on us?

[jj2me]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

What I'm saying is for the couple of tablet PCs I've used, if you wanted to click on a program or something you couldn't just tap it. You had to move the cursor around with the stylus like you would a mouse and get it over top the icon etc.

This would be the hover, where the cursor appears when your pen gets within about 1/2" of the active digitizer screen. A "feature" that shouldn't affect simply tapping the program (except in Windows you have to double-tap to open as a default). The hover can also be annoying when tapping to open, especially if you haven't calibrated the digitizer just so, because your eyes follow the hover and try to land it centered on the icon. With PDAs, which also need to be calibrated, you don't see the cursor so you just blissfully tap.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

And the writing has been very non-intuitive on the few I've seen, and I struggle to write small and legibly with my terrible penmanship. I really need something where the writing feels just like writing on paper and can be done as small and neatly as quickly and carefree. If I can't easily scribble notes in the margins of PDFs etc., such a device loses a lot of appeal for me. Guess what I'm saying is that the touch screen sensitivity and precision on the one's I've tried out wasn't good enough for me.

Vista has improved handwriting recognition. RitePen adds a "write anywhere" capability. But both prefer larger writing to smaller writing. The TIP is confined to writing in one space, hardly quickly and carefree. Also hardly carefree on handwriting recognition is having to look to see if it did the correct recognition, and correcting if not.

For non-recognition freehand scribbling, it depends on the app whether it would appeal to you. PDF Annotator is nice for me, maybe not nice for you. There are not a lot of apps that allow scribbling freehand notes--they mostly prefer ASCII text entry.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

But maybe the tech has gotten better since I last played with one a couple years back, and then it's just a matter of having a small 10" (or maybe 8.5" x11") vs the larger ones as I want something small and lite to carry around.

A little better, but it sounds like you have a better plan for you, as the elusive 10" super-thin and light all-day-battery Tablet PC hasn't been invented yet. I have a 12.1" HP 2710p, great to write on, light in weight, and you can add the slice battery for all-day use. But despite being under 4 lbs. and having the advantage of a keyboard for text and data entry, it always feels bulky and heavy to hold and to move around (and definitely to transport) when compared to my little Sony 505.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

What I'm saying is for the couple of tablet PCs I've used, if you wanted to click on a program or something you couldn't just tap it. You had to move the cursor around with the stylus like you would a mouse and get it over top the icon etc.

Have you used a tablet recently? I have Windows Vista Business running on mine and I can just tap on windows, icons, buttons, etc to select them. No need to drag the mouse pointer or anything.

For something like the Gigabyte M912 tablet, that's probably the case since I think it uses XP Home instead of XP Tablet PC Edition. If you use an OS designed for tablet PCs, though, I think the experience would be pretty different.

[Tuna]

From Apple's history and current product line up, I doubt it's going to be an ebook. Apple like premium devices that can be sold as objects of desire. There's a nice space between the Mac Air and the iTouch/iPhone which could be filled with a media tablet with kindle-like delivery not only of books, but also of music, games and film. The technical problems of extremely long battery life could be avoided (so long as it can play through a film, or last for a long flight) and Apple could do what it does best - concentrate on quality of materials and sophisticated user experience. The device would cost at least $700 and that puts it outside of ebook territory and into the general computing arena where it has to have some other functionality to justify the cost.

By comparison, the ideal ebook is not that sexy - it should be small, light and not get in the way of reading a book. It should also be as cheap as possible. Amazon are getting there with the Kindle - imagine something with an 8", 200 dpi display that it is pretty much the entire upper surface of the device (maybe with a slide out keyboard) and sells for less than $100. Now, Apple could leapfrog where Amazon are going, but I suspect they'd rather define a new niche that can demand a premium than fight a well established player.

Besides all that, ebooks all come down to the screen. From what rumours we've heard, Apple aren't going for a technology that is suitable for genuinely comfortable reading.

That's just my take on it, but there you go.

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by Tuna

From Apple's history and current product line up, I doubt it's going to be an ebook. Apple like premium devices that can be sold as objects of desire. There's a nice space between the Mac Air and the iTouch/iPhone which could be filled with a media tablet with kindle-like delivery not only of books, but also of music, games and film. The technical problems of extremely long battery life could be avoided (so long as it can play through a film, or last for a long flight) and Apple could do what it does best - concentrate on quality of materials and sophisticated user experience. The device would cost at least $700 and that puts it outside of ebook territory and into the general computing arena where it has to have some other functionality to justify the cost.

By comparison, the ideal ebook is not that sexy - it should be small, light and not get in the way of reading a book. It should also be as cheap as possible. Amazon are getting there with the Kindle - imagine something with an 8", 200 dpi display that it is pretty much the entire upper surface of the device (maybe with a slide out keyboard) and sells for less than $100. Now, Apple could leapfrog where Amazon are going, but I suspect they'd rather define a new niche that can demand a premium than fight a well established player.

Besides all that, ebooks all come down to the screen. From what rumours we've heard, Apple aren't going for a technology that is suitable for genuinely comfortable reading.

That's just my take on it, but there you go.

It doesn't have to be a dedicated ereader to fill that niche for casual readers and blow open the ebook market; more than half of people reading ebooks now are doing so on LCDs (PCs, laptops and phones), and with a little focus on improving that experience, the comfort gap with eInk can be closed considerably with existing technology. My matte LCD with convenient brightness controls is pretty comfortable as is.

The odds of a physical keyboard are slim to none--that's a peripheral, unnecessary for the majority of mobile tasks, particularly with good handwriting recognition.

[Sonist]

Here is another LG OLED/Apple tablet rumor article.

Also, apparently Archos is coming out with a 5" (too small for me, but presumably cheaper,) Android-based OLED tablet.

I am getting excited about OLED tablets, which should be reasonable good e-readers, as well as multifunction devices :-)

[kamm]

Originally Posted by Tuna

From Apple's history and current product line up, I doubt it's going to be an ebook. Apple like premium devices that can be sold as objects of desire. There's a nice space between the Mac Air and the iTouch/iPhone which could be filled with a media tablet with kindle-like delivery not only of books, but also of music, games and film. The technical problems of extremely long battery life could be avoided (so long as it can play through a film, or last for a long flight) and Apple could do what it does best - concentrate on quality of materials and sophisticated user experience. The device would cost at least $700 and that puts it outside of ebook territory and into the general computing arena where it has to have some other functionality to justify the cost.

By comparison, the ideal ebook is not that sexy - it should be small, light and not get in the way of reading a book. It should also be as cheap as possible. Amazon are getting there with the Kindle - imagine something with an 8", 200 dpi display that it is pretty much the entire upper surface of the device (maybe with a slide out keyboard) and sells for less than $100. Now, Apple could leapfrog where Amazon are going, but I suspect they'd rather define a new niche that can demand a premium than fight a well established player.

Besides all that, ebooks all come down to the screen. From what rumours we've heard, Apple aren't going for a technology that is suitable for genuinely comfortable reading.

That's just my take on it, but there you go.

Exactly. Apple's in for money, nothing else and they declared this gazillion times.

Unless they can make their usual exorbitant profit on a product they won't make it, period.

[kamm]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Here is another LG OLED/Apple tablet rumor article.

Also, apparently Archos is coming out with a 5" (too small for me, but presumably cheaper,) Android-based OLED tablet.

I am getting excited about OLED tablets, which should be reasonable good e-readers, as well as multifunction devices :-)

None of them will show up before Christmas shopping season and I doubt they will be even in the 300-400 range like current ebook readers - again, economics are not there yet for ebook-sized yet cheap color OLED devices IMO.

[yvanleterrible]

It's all vapor anyway. Been so fer years...

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by kamm

Exactly. Apple's in for money, nothing else and they declared this gazillion times.

Unless they can make their usual exorbitant profit on a product they won't make it, period.

That's pretty much all major companies. Hardly exclusive to Apple.

And it's a good thing for most of us as it means they're focused on products that work great for the average user and not just techies.

Originally Posted by taosaur

It doesn't have to be a dedicated ereader to fill that niche for casual readers and blow open the ebook market; more than half of people reading ebooks now are doing so on LCDs (PCs, laptops and phones), and with a little focus on improving that experience, the comfort gap with eInk can be closed considerably with existing technology. My matte LCD with convenient brightness controls is pretty comfortable as is.

Exactly. The key to expanding ebook sales is getting good ereader functions into devices taht people buy for other functions.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

Have you used a tablet recently? I have Windows Vista Business running on mine and I can just tap on windows, icons, buttons, etc to select them. No need to drag the mouse pointer or anything.

For something like the Gigabyte M912 tablet, that's probably the case since I think it uses XP Home instead of XP Tablet PC Edition. If you use an OS designed for tablet PCs, though, I think the experience would be pretty different.

It's been a couple years. I haven't put much effort in to keeping up as I don't want one of the tablet laptops with keyboard etc. as I don't want the device as a laptop replacement. I want something smaller and lighter, for multimedia, reading and marking up pdfs etc. and will just use my laptop for computing, so I'm just keeping my eye out for some smaller tablet (screen only) devices to come out.

Originally Posted by jj2me

This would be the hover, where the cursor appears when your pen gets within about 1/2" of the active digitizer screen. A "feature" that shouldn't affect simply tapping the program (except in Windows you have to double-tap to open as a default). The hover can also be annoying when tapping to open, especially if you haven't calibrated the digitizer just so, because your eyes follow the hover and try to land it centered on the icon. With PDAs, which also need to be calibrated, you don't see the cursor so you just blissfully tap.

Sounds like things have gotten better then. Something just needs to do away with the cursor all together like a PDA.

Vista has improved handwriting recognition. RitePen adds a "write anywhere" capability. But both prefer larger writing to smaller writing. The TIP is confined to writing in one space, hardly quickly and carefree. Also hardly carefree on handwriting recognition is having to look to see if it did the correct recognition, and correcting if not.


For non-recognition freehand scribbling, it depends on the app whether it would appeal to you. PDF Annotator is nice for me, maybe not nice for you. There are not a lot of apps that allow scribbling freehand notes--they mostly prefer ASCII text entry.

Yeah that's probably the main thing that will have to be improved before I take the plunge. If I can't write as small, quickly and carefree in the margins of PDFs etc. as I can on print outs, then I'll just keep sticking with print outs.

So when some small tablet comes out, I'll just have to find a way to demo the options for marking up a PDF and see if it works for me.

A little better, but it sounds like you have a better plan for you, as the elusive 10" super-thin and light all-day-battery Tablet PC hasn't been invented yet.

Yep, I'm generally not much of an early adopter. I'll wait for the tech to get there and fit my specific needs before taking the plunge. I'm fine with my laptop and printouts for now.

[Tuna]

Originally Posted by taosaur

It doesn't have to be a dedicated ereader to fill that niche for casual readers and blow open the ebook market; more than half of people reading ebooks now are doing so on LCDs (PCs, laptops and phones), and with a little focus on improving that experience, the comfort gap with eInk can be closed considerably with existing technology. My matte LCD with convenient brightness controls is pretty comfortable as is.

The odds of a physical keyboard are slim to none--that's a peripheral, unnecessary for the majority of mobile tasks, particularly with good handwriting recognition.

The point is, Apple are very unlikely to produce a premium, $700+ product and then promote it as an ebook. That would make it look very expensive, even for an Apple. They'd be much more likely to sell is as a media tablet, and focus on an iTunes-like store where you can buy films, tv and music. No one else does that yet, and it sounds impressive.

The people who might blow the market wide open in the way you're talking about would be Amazon. They could sell Kindle software for your laptop, or tablet PC - and it would benefit from the attention the Kindle has received. It's easy to imagine them doing that. Why would Apple want to be in a position where Amazon could 'undercut' them by just releasing some software? In fact, Amazon are already capturing that corner of the market by putting Kindle on the iPhone.

It still remains likely that Apple aren't about to release a cheap and very portable ebook device with extended battery life. That would expand the market. Putting ebook software on an expensive device will not change things that much - because, if you want it you can already get good reader software for free for your laptop, netbook and PC. It's already here and there just isn't that much interest because it's an expensive (for the hardware) and inconvenient way to read a book.

[dmaul1114]

Keep in mind that there is a Kindle app already for the iPhone and iPod Touch.

So any multimedia tablet from Apple could just support the Kindle store as well and they could advertise that function along with the music, movies, TV, net surfing etc.

I agree they won't put out a dedicated reader--Apple goes after the mainstream and dedicated readers will never be a mainstream device. Again, it will be multifunction devices that can also read books that help ebooks take off in the future.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Tuna

The point is, Apple are very unlikely to produce a premium, $700+ product and then promote it as an ebook. That would make it look very expensive, even for an Apple. They'd be much more likely to sell is as a media tablet, and focus on an iTunes-like store where you can buy films, tv and music. No one else does that yet, and it sounds impressive.

Has Mr. Jobs not publically stated "people don't read"? Clearly, therefore, that would appear to rule out an eBook device from Apple.