Astak Mentor eBook readers with WiFi and Touchscreen (read-only)

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

Robert, re: Logomaker - I think you need to say, "If SHEL can do it, anybody can"!! It really *is* that easy if you have any knowledge of making graphics at all.

I do have to say I'm disappointed at the emphasis on Adobe Digital Editions, PDF files are really pretty bad on any six inch device. Unless y'all can come up with a workable reflow scheme, or more font sizes, or something.

I buy LIT format whenever possible (and so far that's been every book I've purchased). Now that the firmware has been updated to help with LIT file display, I'm hoping that books in that format will be available at the site as well. If you can beat Books on Board's pricing for paperbacks, and have the selection, I'll be a customer for books at the site.

The emphasis on ADE is really all about ePUB. PDF support is just a bonus. DRM support is good as well because it makes more titles available. Hopefully they will get the clock and date right so that library books can be checked out.

Dale

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Yes, the EZ Reader has 4 levels of greyscale. I suggest you either draw your own or find a Black and White photo. Some color photographs are not too bad at all. Just please be sure they are 600x800!!

I heartily endorse all Slayda suggestions as he knows best!!

EZ Reader does support dithering and if you have the right contrast you can achieve about 12 distinct levels of gray. You may need to experiment to get the contrast correct.

Dale

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Yes, the EZ Reader has 4 levels of greyscale. !

While we are talking about 4 levels of gray scale I noticed that the entry level mentor still says 4 levels of gray while the new Cool-er product with essentially the same hardware advertises 8 levels of gray. Which is correct? I would hope there are at least 8 levels in a 2009 product.

Dale

[phenomshel]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

The emphasis on ADE is really all about ePUB. PDF support is just a bonus. DRM support is good as well because it makes more titles available. Hopefully they will get the clock and date right so that library books can be checked out.

Dale

Ok, I freely admit ignorance here. I know from reading a thread somewhere that someone broke the Adept DRM. And I keep seeing that everyone loves ePub. However, I know nothing about it, and I won't buy a format I can't shift for archiving purposes. I don't trust ANY offsite storage for retrieval of my books. If it's as easy to format shift as .lit is, then cool - but I'm going to need a tutorial.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

If it's as easy to format shift as .lit is, then cool - but I'm going to need a tutorial.

It is if anything even easier to strip the DRM than with LIT( Adobe ADEPT DRM for EPUB circumvented ), and ePub is the direct successor to LIT in terms of ebook features. Since the multiple formats that ebooks come in are typically created from a single source, there is usually little to choose between LIT and ePub when both are available. However, there are now a sizeable number of ePub-only ebooks - particularly in Europe.

Both Calibre and MobiPocket's tools can import ePub and export MOBI or whatever (Calibre).

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by Jellby

It's not so natural for me. I hold the Cybook with the thumb in the middle bottom and the index finger extended across the back (the other fingers curled and relaxed). This I do with either hand, and in any case the thumb can't operate the page-turn button. If I use the left hand, at least I have the right hand free and closer to the button.

If I use both hands, then I have the index fingers extended on the sides, the middle fingers on the back and the thumbs on the front, and I can use the right thumb to turn pages.

+10000 there.

Any reader with only the bottom right button thingy would never be a reader I would buy. As I have rather sever RA which affects my hands there is no way I can read exclusively with one hand, but my preference is the left hand naturally. I am right handed but have always kept the right han free to do other tasks while reading. Eating lunch, dinner, taking notes and such. Because I am right handed my right hand is a fair bit worse than the left so holding anything at all for more than a few moments is problematic on the best of days.

Much as I point out when I disagree with RobertB, it's because I expect so much more from him than a typical poster, he is the face of the company he works for...he has to demand perfection from himself. And one thing I can say, is months ago in this thread, I mentioned this hand issues and he really seemed to pay attention that this is likely the type of issue stopping many of the potential user-base (in today's market) from reading period, let alone an ereading device that does not take the need to change hands frequently and that each of us in the geezer years, have different needs.

So, the more hand agnostic the device the better. However, it still remains to be seen if that point sunk in with the designers, who I fear, being young, have zero appreciation about the issue or it's prevalence in us 40+ folks...even more so for us 50-somethings that have spent near 30-yrs at the keyboard already. If I had to rank needs, hand pain is head and shoulders above eye strain for me. I already have hand pain from the RA 24/7/365, it never goes away...period. As an aside to clarity, do not confuse RA with OA. They are totally different and unrelated conditions...the former is an auto-immune disease with an unknown cause and no cure to date, only palliative care or what amounts to immunosuppressant low end chemo therapy (same drugs as given to cancer patients but in far lower, though still dangerous, doses.) The latter is a wear-n-tear physical condition and not a disease and can often be completely corrected by therapy and even joint replacement or other surgical options). But BOTH can have pain levels off the charts and that is the real problem which causes us to avoid anything that makes the pain more intense.

So, here is hoping it sinks in somewhere that we all benefit from hand agnostic devices.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

So, here is hoping it sinks in somewhere that we all benefit from hand agnostic devices.

Several of the next generation of devices are going to detect screen orientation and provide flexible key orientation that way.

It is interesting that the only real layout change to the Hanlin V5 (New BeBook Mini - 5" Eink Reader) over the V3 is a toggle on the right side to page advance. The V3 already had keys on the left and the bottom (numbers 9 and 0) for this. So someone at Jinke was listening.

[TallMomof2]

Don't shrink it and pink it! I have average man sized hands, comes from being 6 feet tall, and most of the time buttons are a little bit too small anyway.

Color is great, I really like the green case of the Cooler reader.

Buttons should be usable by both left and right handed readers. And large enough that we're not fat fingering.

[catsittingstill]

Originally Posted by Robertb

Dear Catsittingstill:
Romance novels are outselling all other types of eBooks and that IS strictly "for women".

Well, most romance readers are women, but I know some men who read them also. Just sayin'

Originally Posted by Robertb

Yes, I agree with you that the "shrink it and pink it" thing stinks. This is NOT an attempt to do that.

Thanks for addressing this. I am relieved to see that you understand.

Originally Posted by Robertb

Cat... I cannot give you a wrench with more leverage... but I can ask you and others for ideas and that is what I am doing. Are there concepts that can delineate an eBook Reader as better for the female? Perhaps smaller buttons for smaller fingers? I really do not know. SO... as this is a forum I am inviting some discussion.

Actually pressing big buttons with small fingers is easy. Seriously. So no, don't bother with making the buttons smaller. One issue that does pop to mind is that the buttons must be easy to press, so that someone whose hands aren't very strong can turn pages for hours without having her thumbs cramp. Also if you want your reader to appeal to women, make sure that the ergonomics work for small hands as well as big ones. I have long fingers, but someone with short fingers probably also needs to be able to turn the pages with the hand holding the book.

Personally, I like being able to switch hands. My reader isn't heavy or anything--it's about like a paperback book--but even so I need to switch hands every so often. So I really like that it has a page turn button on each side. I don't know if that's a "woman" thing or not--though people who are less strong might want to switch hands more often.

Seriously, these are the only "woman useability issues" I can think of.

But you know what really appeals to me? That "man reader" someone was talking about downthread, ruggedized and waterproof, with a lexan cover for the screen. I like to canoe, see. And I've been telling myself that no, I mustn't take my e-book reader canoe-camping with me, even though the combination of dozens of books in something the size and weight of one is just *perfect* for a situation in which everything has to fit in one pack and be carried over portages. Because, of course, if the e-book reader fell in the water, it would be toast. An ex-e-book reader. Pining for the fjords. But a waterproof one, now--that would be just the ticket. And the lexan cover would keep it safe if I thoughtlessly packed it next to the pans. Okay, olive green is not my favorite color, but for a ruggedized waterproof reader...I could live with olive green.

Just not camo, please, for goodness sake. I want to be able to find it again.

[FizzyWater]

Originally Posted by Robertb

I am the most avid "pusher" of color bodies for eBook Devices. Unfortunately, management's bean counters find it easier to stick with black and white temporarily. Your email confirms what the women speakers at IDPF said... get devices in color. I agree with the pretty cases penchent too. Maybe fine grained leathers is not enough. We need to dress the cases up a bit further for women. Maybe rhinestones or birthstones might be a possibility. We are working with female publishers to delineate more ideas. SKINS are popular and I want that. There is a fine line between pretty and slightly tacky in accessories. I do not want to go too far and appear overboard but I do want to design for WOMEN as well as men.

This particular woman cringes when she sees rhinestones ... or lace (it's just itchy!) On the other hand, the first thing I bought when I got my Sony PRS505 was the hot pink leather cover. My co-worker really, really wanted the lime-green cover, but it's only for the 500.

I think it's like just about everything else: people - men and women - like a variety of things. A quick check on Google tells me there have been something like 163 million Ipods sold. So if they want to offer 15 different colors with a multitude of cases and/or holders and/or skins, they have a large enough pool of buyers to do so and still make money.

There's (currently) a much smaller pool of ebook reader buyers. I would expect too much customization would just lead to unsold stock. I think one of the other posters has the best suggestion - elegant, simple design.

Now, if you want to appeal to readers who want something fancier and customizable, I wonder if you couldn't find a crafter company you could work with to make patterns for customizable covers? Cloth, lace, rhinestone - paint-by-number skins? I have no idea how "doable" something like that would be, but I know women who make book covers, scrapbook covers, cell phone carry cases, and so on. And it wouldn't have to be on your inventory!

[SaraD]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

so, just to add to this....why are you also not asking MEN for what they want in a device?

What a bunch of "udder" nonsense.

Of course it is!

Every so often marketing people in general go through this whole "you mean women actually choose what (insert name of product here) is purchaseed?" For a great example go to Engadget and look for the article "Dell unveils Della website to help women choose which totally cute laptop they prefer" - sorry I'm not getting the link to work. It came out on 05/11/2009 and is hilarious & prime example of "marketing to women" done very poorly and ticking off potential customers.

Overall if the concept can get some decent looking e-book readers, mp3 players, laptops, or whatever out there by all means it should be taken advantage of since it really benefits everybody. I'm seeing this as Robert making sure he is not forgetting a section of the market and we can all throw in some ideas. Yeah, we've said many of them before and little may have changed, but maybe it will be looked at with new eyes this time by the person he shows the ideas to who has to approve it.

[griffonwing]

Originally Posted by SaraD

Every so often marketing people in general go through this whole "you mean women actually choose what (insert name of product here) is purchaseed?" For a great example go to Engadget and look for the article "Dell unveils Della website to help women choose which totally cute laptop they prefer" - sorry I'm not getting the link to work. It came out on 05/11/2009 and is hilarious & prime example of "marketing to women" done very poorly and ticking off potential customers.

http://content.dell.com/us/en/home/della.aspx

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

While we are talking about 4 levels of gray scale I noticed that the entry level mentor still says 4 levels of gray while the new Cool-er product with essentially the same hardware advertises 8 levels of gray. Which is correct? I would hope there are at least 8 levels in a 2009 product.

Dale

The Mentor Lite and the EZ Reader provide 4 levels of greyscale. Additional models due this year will go up to 16 levels of grey scale.

As the Cool-er product advertises 8 levels of grey scale I am a bit surprised as the factory only makes 4 levels at this time. PVI does not make any panel higher than 4 levels of grey scale. There are panel manufacturers that have higher BUT they have not been delivering. We try NOT to talk badly about our competition; but cannot fathom how they can get panels that supposedly are not shipping. We have the same question as you have... how can they advertise what is not being shipped?

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by Robertb

PVI does not make any panel higher than 4 levels of grey scale.

The Vizplex EInk film supports at least 16 grey levels, and so does the PVI screen made with that film. It is the controller which limits older devices to 4 grey scales. We know the Epson Broadsheet controller can handle 8 and 16 grey levels because this is actually done by the Sony PRS-700 and Amazon Kindle 2 repectively. The original Apollo controller (EZ Reader, Kindle 1) only supports 4 level greyscale. The Metronome controller also supports 8 level greyscale, but it is only used in the Sony PRS-505 so far as I know.

[Robertb]

Originally Posted by SaraD

Of course it is!

Every so often marketing people in general go through this whole "you mean women actually choose what (insert name of product here) is purchaseed?" For a great example go to Engadget and look for the article "Dell unveils Della website to help women choose which totally cute laptop they prefer" - sorry I'm not getting the link to work. It came out on 05/11/2009 and is hilarious & prime example of "marketing to women" done very poorly and ticking off potential customers.

Overall if the concept can get some decent looking e-book readers, mp3 players, laptops, or whatever out there by all means it should be taken advantage of since it really benefits everybody. I'm seeing this as Robert making sure he is not forgetting a section of the market and we can all throw in some ideas. Yeah, we've said many of them before and little may have changed, but maybe it will be looked at with new eyes this time by the person he shows the ideas to who has to approve it.

Dear Sara:

In the past, a few retailers have noted that they would like to see devices that could be primarily targeted to women. Mostly it was just lip service and went no further. Now we have been approached by publishers that sell ONLY to women and have the customer base to make something like this more a reality.

This is NOT a case of Robert B with dollar signs in his eyes looking at a new and lucrative market. This is about two publishers who have openly stated that the Big Two eBook reader manufacturers have not listened to them and just maybe Astak will listen.

MobileRead Forum already should know of me as one that likes to listen and react truthfully to end users and possible end users. Same goes with these two publishers. I am searching for ideas and just maybe we all will get products that do find a real hidden opportunity. Astak is NOT exploiting anyone or pulling their attention away from males or going off in a new direction. We are trying to get ideas that perhaps do lend themselves more towards women.

And, in so doing, maybe all (males and females) will profit as we come out with better devices.

I feel naturally (or I would not be in the business) that our Mentor and EZ Reader lines are at least as good and in many ways better than the competition. Why would anybody want to build a second or third class machine? BUT, despite how good our machines may be, large publishers do not even know we exist. Just maybe something like this can show that we are what I think we are (a terrific value) and on a level or slightly advanced footing with the Big Two.