over 100 books of my kindle library just vaporized

[Josieb1]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

Only the publisher can issue such licenses. When you buy a e-book, you are sub-licensed by the store platform to operate on a particular file(s). Such license becomes void when publisher stops licensing the store. Therefore, downloading, distributing, displaying, or otherwise operating on those particular files provided by the store becomes illegal.

You haven’t a clue what you are talking about. The publishers I bought from that closed properly told customers to download their books for backup. Are you actually saying that the publishers told their customers to commit an illegal act?

[Josieb1]

Originally Posted by Desertway

It seems to me that purchased books no longer being available to download at some point used to be a bigger problem than it is now. When I last ran though my MYKCD books, I saw quite a few that are no longer available for purchase. I could still send ALL of them to my Kindle. (A broken thumbnail is the clue, then click on the book link and land in nowhereville.)

I get that a lot. In fact I have a seperate collection of duplicate books where I have bought them twice, once from Amazon via the publisher, then the second time when the author got their rights back and republished because the said publisher never paid them. It happened a lot in one specific genre I read.

I also have audiobooks for some ebooks that are whispersynced and it’s hit and miss what version the audiobook links to.

[Readirect]

Originally Posted by flowoeB

that's the fun part - if i had stolen the books i could read them - i'm the idiot who bought 1k books...

And THAT is the answer to your problem: You legally purchased those books AND this means that the author, publisher & seller all got paid. They are happy.

AND the ONLY one who is not happy is you, because you now don't have access to those books.

SO the solution is to gain access to those books by downloading them from the net, at those sites where you could've "stolen" them in the first place. EXCEPT what you are doing is not stealing because you have already paid everyone involved.

AND the best part is you are doing EXACTLY what Amazon says you are entitled to: You did not buy the book -- according to Amazon -- you bought the right to access the book. That's exactly what you are doing, when you visit Anna. Problem. Solved.

[howyoudoin]

I don’t support the artificial distinction that ebook stores attempt to make with incenses compared to physical books. When one buys a physical book, one gets the right to a copy in perpetuity. Physical books deteriorate, and the end of a particular book physically means one would need to buy a new copy to access the contents again. E-books do not disintegrate, and that is a useful improvement due to technology. So one should have access to it in perpetuity. This improvement in technology should be to the benefit of the purchaser. But some ebook stores do not like this improvement and se seek to impose an artificial restriction on the lifetime of the purchase. While legal, this does not seem ethical/moral (not an invitation to another tired old debate on “there is no morality”). Improvements in technology should benefit everyone, even the reader. The author got paid, the publisher got paid, the store got its cut. The store shouldn’t be obligated to store the copy on its servers in perpetuity, that is fair, but if the reader liberates the ebook and stores it on their own computer, the store shouldn’t try to write laws to permit itself to double dip in future.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

I don’t support the artificial distinction

Hardly an “artificial” distinction! The difference between real property and intellectual property is a longstanding codification in law.

Pbooks and ebooks are two very different entities despite an overlap in textual content. If you want the advantages of a pbook, by all means buy them. But don’t try to shoehorn the definition of pbook into that of ebook to suit your purposes.

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by issybird

Hardly an “artificial” distinction! The difference between real property and intellectual property is a longstanding codification in law.

Pbooks and ebooks are two very different entities despite an overlap in textual content. If you want the advantages of a pbook, by all means buy them. But don’t try to shoehorn the definition of pbook into that of ebook to suit your purposes.

All laws are artificial. You could make a law saying that you own a horse carriage, but you only license an electric car until the manufacturer decides to switch it off.

The arbitrariness only exists because publishers decided that it wasn't in their financial interests to sell a book in a format that is non-degradable.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

All laws are artificial. You could make a law saying that you own a horse carriage, but you only license an electric car until the manufacturer decides to switch it off.

You’ve moved the goalpost. Originally you said the distinction was artificial, not the law. And in wouldn’t apply in the ridiculous analogy you’ve created since both carriages and cars are physical property.

The arbitrariness only exists because publishers decided that it wasn't in their financial interests to sell a book in a format that is non-degradable.

Hardly arbitrary. Again, long-standing legal definition which obviously applies to ebooks and pbooks. Show me that you can pick up an ebook and then you’ve got a case.

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by issybird

You’ve moved the goalpost. Originally you said the distinction was artificial, not the law. And in wouldn’t apply in the ridiculous analogy you’ve created since both carriages and cars are physical property.

The laws are artificial, so are the distinctions they seek to make. If a manufacturer decided to remotely switch off your electric car, you are still in possession of it, but I don't think you intended to pay for a car that couldn't move. You pay for an ebook you can read, not merely hold possession of.

Hardly arbitrary. Again, long-standing legal definition which obviously applies to ebooks and pbooks. Show me that you can pick up an ebook and then you’ve got a case.

Legal definitions, no matter how long they stand for, are arbitrary. I can't pick up an acre of land I own, so does that mean I don't own it? So arbitrary. I paid for a book in a non-perishable format, but you support making it arbitrarily perishable? Where's the sense in that? I don't demand you keep it on your servers, I will gladly keep it on my computer and be responsible for maintaning the existence of the copy I paid for. But you seek to deny me that. Why exactly do you want to make me spend multiple times to read a book I already bought? Is there no end to your greed?

Laws should ideally be common-sensical. But corporate interests and the bevy of lawyers they can buy have written laws to suit themselves. Technology has been malformed to benefit only corporates, not the common people. Apparently people cannot benefit from non-perishable forms of books due to progressing technology, but only corporations can. That is where we stand with current laws. Improvements in technology made double dipping with ebooks a thing of the past, but corporations want to artificially make ebooks a perishable item to make more profit. As a corporation you have now used your lawyers and lobbying groups to make 1s and 0s perishable, and we must ignore the reality of the universe because the inherent non-perishability of ebooks does not suit the corporate bottomline.

[Gormagon]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

E-books do not disintegrate, and that is a useful improvement due to technology. So one should have access to it in perpetuity.

But the storage medium disintegrates over time. Almost nothing lasts forever except maybe non-radioactive isotops of noble gases under normal conditions, they are just chemically inert.
Plus there may come a time when another file format is preferred for e-books and old file formats like epub may not be read by then modern software.

Originally Posted by Readirect

EXCEPT what you are doing is not stealing because you have already paid everyone involved.

Even if you paid for a e-book once you are not doing something legal if you download it from some shady website, depending on where you live. Maybe somewhere it may be equal to a "private copy", although you are not copying the file you bought...but IANAL and every state may have different copyright laws.

[DiapDealer]

My god. Reminds me of Ogre stoned around the campfire in Nerds. What if C-A-T really spelled DOG? Also reminds me of the hillfolk characters on old westerns: "We don't hold with none o' yer fancy laws."

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by Sarmat89

You buy physical books which perish - why should the digital book be any different? It is unreasonable to expect owning something forever because "OMG digital!" vibe.

If treated well, a good quality physical book can last hundreds of years, well beyond the lifespan of the original owner.

I think it's fair for people to want their digital versions to last at least their life time and not at the whim of a corporation. The rules need to be fair, clear and understandable. Breaking purchases with no warning with the only response being "spend more money" or "sorry, nothing we can do" is not reasonable, even if their rules technically claim so.

Physical books are technically licensed too. You can't make copies of them for sale either. Do you think if publishers put "We can legally enter your abode at any time and reclaim this title at our discretion" in a disclaimer that changes every 6 months accessible by a QR code on the back of book it'd be okay? But it's okay in digital?

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by Gormagon

But the storage medium disintegrates over time. Almost nothing lasts forever except maybe non-radioactive isotops of noble gases under normal conditions, they are just chemically inert.
Plus there may come a time when another file format is preferred for e-books and old file formats like epub may not be read by then modern software.

That is true, but I am willing to maintain the copy and the reading software for myself. I take full responsibility for that. Why must we have laws that take away my agency in the matter?

[slm]

It may be worthwhile to remind some of the folks arguing about the resale distinction between tree books and ebooks, the the "ownership" and right to lend or resell is not because the publisher wants it that way--in jurisidictions that do not have a "first sale" doctrine, library must pay extra for rights to lend out, just as they do in the US for ebooks.
The difference is that the Supreme Court long ago made the first sale rule--now codified--and publishers later argued (and won) that it does not apply to ebooks. This is nothing more--nor anything less--that the application of political power.

[JSWolf]

I've never been sent a notice that a publisher is going out of business. Just stores that I've bought eBooks from.