Court of Justice of the European Union ruling on VPN's, copyright, and "traveling".

[j.p.s]

I don't circumvent georestrictions, but that doesn't mean I have to like them, approve of them, or keep quiet about it.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I don't circumvent georestrictions, but that doesn't mean I have to like them, approve of them, or keep quiet about it.

I certainly didn't suggest you should keep quiet. Or like, or approve of them. I simply announced my wish that people who DO circumvent georestrictions stop seeking pointless justification and/or entitlement for doing so. And also that they not resort to cute and cuddly--albeit wildly inaccurate--"metaphors" for their actions.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

They did with DVDs and BD, though DVD region locking is dead (though people with PAL/Secam regions don't want NTSC, 480 line vs 576 line! Or even 3:2 pull down) and BD are starting to offer some region free.

Most 4K discs are region free. Butt he problem comes when the Blu-Ray disc is region locked. You then cannot play it if there are any extras. However, I could buy an external BR drive and use that you rip the BR and then play it.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by jhowell

As far as I can tell the ruling indicates that publishers and VPN providers cannot be blamed for these copyright violations but I do not see any mention of the legal status of the people who are actually using the VPNs.

As long as the book is paid for what difference does it make where the buyer lives? Some of the Sherlock Holmes stories either are or were still under copyright some yrs back. Obviously if they are under copyright then they aren't in the Public Domain and have to be paid for. If someone buys a copy of said book even if they don't live in a country where the book is considered still in copyright how can they be considered to have committed theft if they have paid for the book itself?

[crich70]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Most 4K discs are region free. Butt he problem comes when the Blu-Ray disc is region locked. You then cannot play it if there are any extras. However, I could buy an external BR drive and use that you rip the BR and then play it.

Or you could go online buy a player that is set for the region and play it on that. You would need a voltage adaptor probably but you would be playing the DVD on a region specific machine then.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by crich70

Or you could go online buy a player that is set for the region and play it on that. You would need a voltage adaptor probably but you would be playing the DVD on a region specific machine then.

You could buy a 4K player that's region free. But that costs more and you may not be able to update the firmware if there is a new firmware.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by crich70

Or you could go online buy a player that is set for the region and play it on that. You would need a voltage adaptor probably but you would be playing the DVD on a region specific machine then.

I did this for my wife. There is a show from Australia that is only available to stream for the first few seasons. She loves the show and I ordered the entire series on DVD. I think it was close to thirty DVDs. I also ordered a DVD player to play them. She was very surprised and happy.
Apache

[John F]

Originally Posted by crich70

... If someone buys a copy of said book even if they don't live in a country where the book is considered still in copyright how can they be considered to have committed theft if they have paid for the book itself?

I don't think it would be considered theft, it would be considered copyright infringement?

isn't it up to the rights holder how best to sell/market their IP?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by John F

isn't it up to the rights holder how best to sell/market their IP?

Sadly Authors don't decide. The big publishers agreed a territorial carve-up long ago, particularly for the English Language. A bit earlier than that the USA publishers simply pirated English works published elsewhere. Rampant in 19th C.
Also it's not really an aspect of the intent of copyright to refuse to sell to particular regions. That's really a publisher / distributor decision and largely decided privately among publishers in the early to mid 20th C. In fact it encourages piracy. It's a form of cartel.
There might even be a Canadian law regarding action if a USA publisher doesn't sell in Canada.

[KosmoWorks]

Interesting ruling. It seems like a reasonable balance: publishers should take appropriate measures to respect territorial restrictions, but they cannot realistically guarantee that no reader will ever bypass them with a VPN.

I wonder how courts will define “state-of-the-art” geo-blocking in practice, especially for smaller publishers that may not have access to expensive technical solutions.

[Quoth]

Geo-blocking is practically free.
If you access a web site, the IP is revealed, or else the site couldn't render! See how TCP/IP or UDP works.
Then because the IP ranges ISPs have and where they use them is public, it's trivial to either have "Allow" or "Block" lists with ranges for the web-server.

Really it's nothing do with copyright as such, it's a combination of contracts and often illegal agreement (historically) to carve up the world markets, mostly in this case for English.

"State-of-the-Art" wouldn't even really include VPN use detection. It's just IP look up.

IP ranges should not be public. Nor renters of domain names. It's a broken American idea.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Sadly Authors don't decide. The big publishers agreed a territorial carve-up long ago, particularly for the English Language. A bit earlier than that the USA publishers simply pirated English works published elsewhere. Rampant in 19th C.
Also it's not really an aspect of the intent of copyright to refuse to sell to particular regions. That's really a publisher / distributor decision and largely decided privately among publishers in the early to mid 20th C. In fact it encourages piracy. It's a form of cartel.
There might even be a Canadian law regarding action if a USA publisher doesn't sell in Canada.

To answer my own question, I think it is up to the author. If they don't want geo restricting, don't sign the contract.

[nana77]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Geo-blocking is practically free.
If you access a web site, the IP is revealed, or else the site couldn't render! See how TCP/IP or UDP works.
Then because the IP ranges ISPs have and where they use them is public, it's trivial to either have "Allow" or "Block" lists with ranges for the web-server.

Really it's nothing do with copyright as such, it's a combination of contracts and often illegal agreement (historically) to carve up the world markets, mostly in this case for English.

"State-of-the-Art" wouldn't even really include VPN use detection. It's just IP look up.

IP ranges should not be public. Nor renters of domain names. It's a broken American idea.

Pardon, but if on (e.g) the Kobo Store I just can swap between countries or language; and I'm allowed to change paying location (e.g. on Paypal), and bought books that are on sale on UK instead US (where in my country it wouldn't be none - but that you already mentioned: mostly for english languages).
Where would it be wrong? I mean, I'm not VPN-doing things even.

[nana77]

Originally Posted by John F

To answer my own question, I think it is up to the author. If they don't want geo restricting, don't sign the contract.

If I'd understood, it means also "where the book is allowed to be sold", e.g. different licenses by Countries. It's not the editor that would put them, them already there.

[Frogm4n]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Geo-blocking is practically free.
If you access a web site, the IP is revealed, or else the site couldn't render! See how TCP/IP or UDP works.
Then because the IP ranges ISPs have and where they use them is public, it's trivial to either have "Allow" or "Block" lists with ranges for the web-server.

I spent more than a decade working for a network security company and was directly responsible for developing threat intelligence lists for customer use. GeoIP is notoriously unreliable and inaccurate.