Who says going electronic necessarily is going green?

[thibaulthalpern]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

"going green" is today's buzzword... If you're not "going green" you're doing something wrong, so you just say you are (even if you aren't!) just to go with the flow.

At least, that's how I see it...

Example: cars.

Now you have this very "environmentally safe" car (goes on electricity all the way! Mostly suitable for in-town traffic. Now, I happen to know an even more environmentally safe way of transportation: the bike. As that car is mostly for town traffic anyway, why use a car in the first place? But because it's a "green" car, you should use it...

I agree with you, sweetpea, and it's a point I've thought of for many years in the past.

With the fairly recent rise of hybrid cars we see another rise in smugness associated with using a particular product. What I think we see here is that being environmentally aware is associated with the usage of certain products. That is, a product or material good itself becomes the symbol for environmentally friendly and environmentally aware. Often, the case is that this is too simplistic a relationship to hold true much of the time.

Your bike example is a good one. And we can also add public transportation and walking to that. It takes us more effort to change a behaviour rather than substitute a product we're already using with another one. This is not to say that changing a product we use doesn't change a behaviour. It can but it's not a simple relationship.

using Hybrid Card ≠ being environmentally friendly (at least not necessarily)
using Compact fluorescent bulbs ≠ being environmentally aware (at least not necessarily)
using paper bags ≠ being green (at least not necessarily)

[DixieGal]

Remmber back when you used to could flip a switch and a light came on? Now it is flip, flicker, buzz, light.
But our power bill went down $30 a month after switching otu bulbs.

[thibaulthalpern]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

It is all really very relative - just which process is more environmentally friendly can be argued until eternity.

I think I'm really suggesting that the other side of the environmentally friendly equation is our own human behaviours. Yes, the goods and materials do matter but we have sidelined our own human behaviours as a key factor.

We could, for once shift away attention from the material goods and processes and look at human behaviour.

[krisk]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

My mom's motto was "live below your means." It meant to pay cash, stay out of debt, and think about something before purchasing. Tim and I follow that path quite happily. We don't have everything they sell in Walmart, like the rest of America, but we have financial freedom.

To me, a lot of the problem could be solved if a truly effective method of dealing with trash were invented. Recycling is cute, and it makes the recycler feel better, but in reality, most of that ends up trashed anyway. Recycled paper seems to be the most obvious product of recycling, but what about everything else?

Plastics can't be recycled into new food containers. Why not? Why on earth isn't anyone inventing a process that purifies the used plastics so that it can be recycled? Tim goes through enough milk jugs in a week to keep them in business!

HOWEVER.... I'm still angry that they made my Aquafina bottles with 50% less plastic, and now the bottle squishes in your hand when you unscrew the cap.

@thiebald, please ask a mod to add the "serious" header to this thread.

plastic bottles DO however end up turned into clothing and rugs (wear a fleece jacket lately?)

what amazes me here in CA is how difficult it is to return the bottles, both plastic and glass which we are charged a deposit on. in Oregon most grocery stores have an area where you turn in your bottles and either get a receipt you can apply to your bill, or straight up cash. where I'm at the only place I have been told about that has cash recycling is a COSTCO which is out of my way.

[DixieGal]

Originally Posted by krisk

plastic bottles DO however end up turned into clothing and rugs (wear a fleece jacket lately?)

Really? Intriguing. More details, please.

[thibaulthalpern]

Originally Posted by ruskie

All this green **** is annoying. The biggest problem is that people have this insistent urge to upgrade to latest and greatest all the time.

Take away incentives to do so and you solve the hyperproduction/hyperconsumption that plagues this world today.

And no going electronic isn't green. But being smart about what you want/need is. Considering the book publishing business with tons of book that then need to get recycled if not sold instead of not making that many initially is a waste.

The world needs to change from hyper to sustainable. And nobody says that sustainable needs to mean not being able to get the same things. Or that prices would increase and so on. [....]

I agree with many of your points but diverge from your idea that "nobody says that sustainable needs to mean not being able to get the same things."

I am saying, in fact, that sometimes being environmentally aware and friendly does mean not consuming in the way we have and as a result it does mean dropping away some of the things we might be used to. And in fact, change some of our behaviours entirely such as dropping some of those behaviours (which is certainly hard).

Let's say hypothetically I own a large R.V. (Recreation Vehicle) which is really a house on wheels. Now, this is really hypothetical because I don't even own a car. Bike, bus, and my own two feet are my modes of transport. So say I have a large R.V. and I take 6 long trips a year with my R.V. going to many different states. Along with my R.V. I tug along my speedboat and Jeep. The industry invents a hybrid R.V. cutting my fuel consumption to 30% less than it was before, going from 6 miles/gallon to 7.8 miles/gallon! Whoopeee!

Well...Hmm....actually maybe I should reconsider the kinds of trips I take and maybe, just maybe find a way to take fewer trips, and maybe even trips that doesn't involve the R.V., speedboat, and Jeep!

[DixieGal]

Originally Posted by thibaulthalpern

Let's say hypothetically I own a large R.V. (Recreation Vehicle) which is really a house on wheels. Now, this is really hypothetical because I don't even own a car. Bike, bus, and my own two feet are my modes of transport. So say I have a large R.V. and I take 6 long trips a year with my R.V. going to many different states. Along with my R.V. I tug along my speedboat and Jeep. The industry invents a hybrid R.V. cutting my fuel consumption to 30% less than it was before, going from 6 miles/gallon to 7.8 miles/gallon! Whoopeee!

Well...Hmm....actually maybe I should reconsider the kinds of trips I take and maybe, just maybe find a way to take fewer trips, and maybe even trips that doesn't involve the R.V., speedboat, and Jeep!

(I don't have a speedboat or jeep)
Forget the mileage, think how much junk food we consume on trips! Bags and bags of cookie packages to throw away. (Note to self: Get daylight pic of The Love Shack)

[krisk]

Originally Posted by DixieGal

Really? Intriguing. More details, please.

http://www.plasticsinfo.org/s_plasti...D=551&DID=3407 this is a fact sheet about plastics. we do stuff like this with Girl Scouts quite often.

[Tattncat]

After reading the article, I took note of one encouraging little section, namely that the use of mobile devices tends to be more efficient than plug-ins. I take hope on the fact that with the Touch and my eReader combined I spend much less timeon my computer, thus cutting my/our electrical use add our 22 year-old Geo Metro (48 actual mpg highway) and I think we are at least attempting to keep our footprint down.

[DixieGal]

Originally Posted by krisk

http://www.plasticsinfo.org/s_plasti...D=551&DID=3407 this is a fact sheet about plastics. we do stuff like this with Girl Scouts quite often.

That was very encouraging to read that they are actually doing something with all of the recycled plastics. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Tattncat

After reading the article, I took note of one encouraging little section, namely that the use of mobile devices tends to be more efficient than plug-ins. I take hope on the fact that with the Touch and my eReader combined I spend much less timeon my computer, thus cutting my/our electrical use add our 22 year-old Geo Metro (48 actual mpg highway) and I think we are at least attempting to keep our pawprint down.

Fixed it for ya!

[kwjones]

My motorcycle gets almost 65mpg. My car gets 30mpg. I drive as little as possible. I commute to work by train. I cut my electricity bill by replacing all of the pumps in my 75 gallon aquarium with more energy efficient models. I have a 100 square foot vegetable garden and make my own compost. In the summer I set the thermostat for the AC for 80 degrees. In the winter I set the heater for 65. I turn off any lights not being used. I unplug any electrical devices that don't need to be plugged in. I use rechargeable batteries. I buy "used" or 2nd hand as much as I can. In the summer, we dry our laundry on clothes lines.

I didn't do ANY of this to be "green", I did it to save money. I don't care about the "green" movement. I think it's a big Ponzi scheme and the "carbon offsets" are at the top of the list. I also think that there are pleny of common sense things anyone can do that are good for the environment and for their wallets.

[mjh215]

Originally Posted by yekim54

Here is a picture of a CFL bulb that burned out in my house last night. I noticed it flickering but thought it was the thunderstorm we were having at the time. Then I smelled an "electrical fire" type odor. Then it stopped working. I hope I didn't breathe in any mercury vapor.

I don't know if the gas was released or not, I do know that it isn't the bulb that burns out but the ballast (base). And it has been a concern of mine since the first CFL I bought, I've seen two catch fire, though the flame isn't sustained. I use them, but only in those fixtures where an open flame couldn't reach anything flammable. I know most CFL's have a narrow voltage range, and operating them below that range can lead to them catching on fire. This is why you don't use them with dimmer switches (they have CFL's you can, but not the standard ones). I wonder if there wasn't a slight dip in voltage and that caused mine to catch.

Fires caused by CFL's scare me a great deal more then the mercury, I've swallowed probably a billion times more mercury from fillings (and so have most people) than would get absorbed into your system from the small amount in the tube. It sort of reminds me of lead hysteria... I've got 5, 10 and 25lb ingots of lead sitting around, thanks to all the hysteria I could probably hold up a bank with one of them... (No, I wouldn't, lol)

As to all the 'green' consumerism going on right now, education is really what we need. And a non-disposable attitude. The amount of recycled material is nice in Ikea furniture, but if me or Yvan were to build a nice desk (we're woodworkers) it could, with very basic upkeep, be a multi-generational piece of furniture lasting hundreds of years. Most things like the above flat-box furniture are purchased and discarded after a few years. Making things out of bamboo is nice if you aren't creating more damage with the binders, and if those binders will last more then a few months/years. Many of the same people that preach to me on 'green' topics also go out and buy new computers, cell phones, and dozens of other gadgets every couple months. Since the items are small they think their impact is small.

-MJ

[wodin]

Originally Posted by kwjones

I don't care about the "green" movement. I think it's a big Ponzi scheme and the "carbon offsets" are at the top of the list. I also think that there are pleny of common sense things anyone can do that are good for the environment and for their wallets.

This is what I have to say about the whole thing:

[Alphapheemail]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

And while we're on the subject, working out better ways of recycling electronics trash is one of the largest priorities we have.

I completely agree! There is a huge problem in China since they buy our electronic trash to make people extract the pieces and re sell the good parts. But this practice is poising children who have no other means of survival (ironic no?)

New Scientist Article





Maybe the way bottle companies use 50% recycled bottles, computer companies could do the same and reuse the good parts in the trash; but this includes that they are the ones doing the extraction of the parts in a non hazardous manner.

[demoric]

To continue with the divergence of the thread...

I do firmly believe in the 3 R's of recycling: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. I installed the same lower consumption bulbs in my house and reduced my electric bill by $25 a month. All appliances I have purchased I make certain are the most efficient that I can afford. In the last 8 years I have only trashed two pieces of consumer electronics (a PC and a analog cell phone) and have found homes for others or kept them in repair. If you get rid of an old appliance donate them to appliance repair store in my experience they appreciate free parts, and have even given me parts as needed for free at a later time.

Simple things people can do: recycle metals, properly dispose of oil, use reusable shopping bags, use natural lighting as much as possible, plan your shopping trips monthly (saves on money spent and fuel), repair (or have repaired) electronics, and always see if you can reuse something you're going to discard or see if someone else can use it.

For personal electronic devices like your cell phone, ipod, and even Kindle can be charged at no cost to you using a solar charger which are $18-$30 and portable. Also check really consider if you NEED to upgrade or if it's just shiny and new.

Lastly a shameless plug for a website I find helpful. http://otherpower.com/ it shows how to generate electricity and reduce consumption by constructing, re-using, and repairing items.