Kindle DX's impact on iRex 1000 - Page 2

HarryT · 05-15-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

The DX is not "vapourware", even in quotes. It's been announced, and you know as well as anyone else that it will be available.

Of course it is. "Announcing" a product doesn't make it "real". You can't buy a Kindle DX now, any more than you can buy a Hanlin V9, or any other device which is waiting for the production of 9.7" screens. The product does not currently exist, because the 9.7" screen which it will use is not currently being manufactured.

wallcraft · 05-15-2009, 09:42 AM

There are indications, such as the tiny University pilot programs, that the KDX might initially be in limited supply. However, this is limited supply for Amazon's high volume. They probably expect to sell more per week than iRex does per year.

If Amazon does not start shipping in volume by late August they will have a public relations nightmare on their hands.

The KDX announcement is an opportunity for significantly increased sales of the DR1000S if iRex reduced their price a bit. However, I assume that the reason they raised the initial price is that they were already delivering all the devices they are capable of making.

HarryT · 05-15-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

There are indications, such as the tiny University pilot programs, that the KDX might initially be in limited supply. However, this is limited supply for Amazon's high volume. They probably expect to sell more per week than iRex does per year.

If Amazon does not start shipping in volume by late August they will have a public relations nightmare on their hands.

My point is, however, that they are entirely dependent upon PVI's ability to manufacturer the screens in volume, and I'll eat my (virtual) hat if that happens by August. Look how long we've been waiting for the Hanlin V9 (which uses the same screen); all the indications I've seen are that volume production of the screen won't happen until the latter part of this year, or even early next year.

wallcraft · 05-15-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

all the indications I've seen are that volume production of the screen won't happen until the latter part of this year, or even early next year.

I agree that Amazon is taking a risk, but they must have a reason for believing that PVI can deliver. The unclear part is glass vs plastic. Late this year is for the flexi-screen that most vendors are waiting for. It isn't clear whether Amazon is using glass, or if they have exclusive, or priority, access to the early production (which is why everyone else is saying the fall or later).

HarryT · 05-15-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

Late this year is for the flexi-screen that most vendors are waiting for.

Yes, it's that screen that I'm referring to. Do you really think that Amazon would use a glass screen? The consensus seems to be that it's just too fragile for a large-screen device.

olis · 05-15-2009, 10:27 AM

Claiming that the kindledx is vaporware is a bit excessive.
We have seen fully functional pre-production DX units at the New York presentation, you can pre-order a kindledx (there is even the user manual online), and you have the official statement, by a solid company like amazon, that it will be released this summer.

Quote:

because the 9.7" screen which it will use is not currently being manufactured.

Again, where did you get that information? Can you provide some links/sources in which is stated that PVI is not currently manufacturing 9,7" screens?

HarryT · 05-15-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olis

Again, where did you get that information? Can you provide some links/sources in which is stated that PVI is not currently manufacturing 9,7" screens?

It's common knowledge. Look how long the Hanlin V9, which uses that screen, has been delayed. It was originally scheduled for release last summer, but has been constantly delayed, because PVI have put their production efforts into 6" screens to meet the demand.

The only large-screen device actually on the market which I'm personally aware of is the iRex DR1000, which has a 10.4" screen manufactured specifically for iRex. If there is any machine which uses the 9.7" screen actually available today, I'm certainly not aware of it. Do you know of one?

301verbs · 05-15-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Of course it is. "Announcing" a product doesn't make it "real". You can't buy a Kindle DX now, any more than you can buy a Hanlin V9, or any other device which is waiting for the production of 9.7" screens. The product does not currently exist, because the 9.7" screen which it will use is not currently being manufactured.

I know the word gets tossed about, but it's a shame.

Vaporware isn't just an unreleased product. Vaporware is a product that literally has not been demonstrated to exist at all. For all you know, it's just vapors. PixelQi's new screens are vaporware. They might exist, but nobody's seen them. The moment working, final-form samples are released, you've got more than vapors. Then it's just a product nearing release, or whatever you want to call it. If it ends up being released way, way longer than was originally promised, or totally not living up to the promises that were made, then you can call it vaporware. But that's after the fact.

Vaporware is a promise broken, a promise too vague to be meaningful, or a promise you have strong reason to believe won't be kept. The new Kindle might end up stretching the definition of "summer" by a little, but I think most people would agree the odds are against that.

I'm not trying to be pedantic. It just really is a word with specific, and extremely negative, connotations. I hate to see it bandied about

[/not trying to defend the Kindle or anything]

kuliand · 05-15-2009, 10:53 AM

well amazon must know that the 9.7 screen will be ready by late summer as they would not of made the announcement if they didn't otherwise they will look very stupid. All this is more reason for another technology to come to market for paper like displays but we could be waiting a while for plastic logic and i don't think the pixel QI display will be as good as the current Eink vizizplex screens.

301verbs · 05-15-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, it's that screen that I'm referring to. Do you really think that Amazon would use a glass screen? The consensus seems to be that it's just too fragile for a large-screen device.

Doesn't Irex use glass screens? (serious question, I don't actually know)

Shaggy · 05-15-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 301verbs

Doesn't Irex use glass screens? (serious question, I don't actually know)

Yes, there is an internal glass layer that is part of the screen.

I have no idea what "consensus" Harry is talking about though (maybe he came to a consensus on his own). The DR (which has a larger screen than the DX will) doesn't seem to have problems with being too fragile. I've seen less reports of broken screens with the DR than I did with the iLiad after a similar period of time.

sirbruce · 05-15-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's common knowledge. Look how long the Hanlin V9, which uses that screen, has been delayed. It was originally scheduled for release last summer, but has been constantly delayed, because PVI have put their production efforts into 6" screens to meet the demand.

Yeah... to meet AMAZON'S demand. You don't think if Amazon now says we need the 9.7" displays in the summer, that PVI won't start making them?

Be prepared to eat your hat.

HarryT · 05-15-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 301verbs

Doesn't Irex use glass screens? (serious question, I don't actually know)

They do indeed, yes, and there is a significant issue with breakage. If Amazon are aiming the Kindle DX at the educational market, they really need a device which will "survive" being thrown into a backpack and carried around a typical campus. The DR1000 wouldn't survive that for very long - it's targetted squarely at the business user. That's why I'd be surprised if Amazon used a glass screen for the DX.

To the best of my knowledge, the "sample" 9.7" screens are glass (like this one announced by Hanlin in January last year), but the production screens will be flexible.

HarryT · 05-15-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Yes, there is an internal glass layer that is part of the screen.

I have no idea what "consensus" Harry is talking about though (maybe he came to a consensus on his own).

The consensus among manufacturers, who seem to have all decided that a 9.7" glass screen is not viable, and are waiting for the flexible one. That's why the 9.7" devices from Hanlin, Astak, etc, were all "put on hold" pending the availability of the flexible screens.

Quote:

The DR (which has a larger screen than the DX will) doesn't seem to have problems with being too fragile. I've seen less reports of broken screens with the DR than I did with the iLiad after a similar period of time.

It's aimed at a different market - business, not student, users. A device aimed at students needs to be a lot tougher.

Shaggy · 05-15-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

... and there is a significant issue with breakage.

No there isn't. There were problems with the iLiads, but I recall seeing very few (if any) reports of broken DR screens. Do you have links to threads talking about broken DRs, or are you just making it up?

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05-15-2009, 09:42 AM	#17
wallcraft reader Posts: 6,977 Karma: 5183568 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD	There are indications, such as the tiny University pilot programs, that the KDX might initially be in limited supply. However, this is limited supply for Amazon's high volume. They probably expect to sell more per week than iRex does per year. If Amazon does not start shipping in volume by late August they will have a public relations nightmare on their hands. The KDX announcement is an opportunity for significantly increased sales of the DR1000S if iRex reduced their price a bit. However, I assume that the reason they raised the initial price is that they were already delivering all the devices they are capable of making.

05-15-2009, 10:53 AM	#24
kuliand Connoisseur Posts: 53 Karma: 138 Join Date: Oct 2008 Device: sony prs505	well amazon must know that the 9.7 screen will be ready by late summer as they would not of made the announcement if they didn't otherwise they will look very stupid. All this is more reason for another technology to come to market for paper like displays but we could be waiting a while for plastic logic and i don't think the pixel QI display will be as good as the current Eink vizizplex screens.