Amazon discontinuing support for older Kindles in May

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

That seems very convoluted. If one can remove the DRM from the books already on the device, why not do so immediately? And if one cannot, why bother moving them off and on?

The books on quite a few of the Kindles Amazon still supports are already burdened with DRM that is currently not removable.

That is the use case I was referring to. The driver behind this suggestion was a bit of paranoia that was speculating about Amazon using their ability to update DRM on the fly so books already on the Kindle would be subject to an updated DRM whereas the backup copies would still have the DRM as of this point in time.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by DNSB

The books on quite a few of the Kindles Amazon still supports are already burdened with DRM that is currently not removable.

That is the use case I was referring to. The driver behind this suggestion was a bit of paranoia that was speculating about Amazon using their ability to update DRM on the fly so books already on the Kindle would be subject to an updated DRM whereas the backup copies would still have the DRM as of this point in time.

To me this seems pointless, as you can't remove the DRM anyway, so why bother. But whatever floats someone's boat, I guess.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

To me this seems pointless, as you can't remove the DRM anyway, so why bother. But whatever floats someone's boat, I guess.

You are hoping that a future version of DeDRM will handle the current Amazon DRM implementation. Much like those folks stocking up on encrypted pages now in the hopes of being able to use a quantum computer to decrypt them in the future. And yes, there is information that could be quite valuable in 10 years but you want to capture now before quantum proof encryption is implemented.

[Sirtel]

With books, there's no guarantee that particular version of DRM will be broken; it might be a different method entirely, or none. Anyway, personally I wouldn't buy books with unbroken DRM at all rather than pin my hopes on some future solution that might or might not come to pass.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by DNSB

The books on quite a few of the Kindles Amazon still supports are already burdened with DRM that is currently not removable.

There is this new method, but it requires a jailbroken Kindle.

[davedeacon]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

With books, there's no guarantee that particular version of DRM will be broken; it might be a different method entirely, or none. Anyway, personally I wouldn't buy books with unbroken DRM at all rather than pin my hopes on some future solution that might or might not come to pass.

All encryptions systems get broken. I'd have thought that removing protection from books on an Android device (or emulator) would provide no difficulty. As a former computer game programmer, there was never a single game which wasn't cracked. Is there an example book which isn't available online? You've made me curious about this now. You'd just need a modified Kindle app, "play" the book one page at a time and scrape the content (aren't they all just enhanced html/css?) in a file.

[DiapDealer]

People have to care enough to crack them. There's a few unbroken DRM systems out there. Besides, it's not just about breaking the encryption. It's about being able to provide a way for others to duplicate your success with stock equipment/apps (and no reverse-engineering skills). Otherwise few enough people will be doing it that it may as well be called "unbroken." Amazon's probably not going to care if the latest DRM removal strategies require rooted/jailbroken kindle devices. If their goal was to eliminate casual DRM removal, they've probably succeeded. But if their goal was to combat piracy, the rooted device approach to drm-removal will keep that humming along unchanged.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Not quite true. Amazon says: If you deregister or factory reset these devices, you will not be able to re-register or use these devices in any way.

Those devices are in an odd state right now. Mine still show as registered on the Devices web page. However no actions are available for them, including deregistering.

I see the books that are present on my newly unsupported devices still showing in the "Device(s) with this item" list when viewed on the Digital Content page of Amazon's web site. So I assume that they are still being counted as present there. Aparently nothing has changed yet in that regard.

Thanks, seems like I misremembered the specifics.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

You can remove downloaded books back to the cloud on no longer supported devices, I’m done it, you just can’t re downloaded them. You get the licence back when you remove it.

You can sync the devices as the whispersync still works for location.

Thanks for the info.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

You only risk your content if you don't remove the DRM and create your own backup copy.

As for myself, I sideload everything, including books bought from the same store my current device is registered to (currently Kobo). No direct downloads to the device at all. YMMV.

For sure.

Personally for myself I am a bit ambivalent about the situation with my Keyboard Kindle, as I cannot remember when I last used it to read. It's been my primary download device, so now it has been made redundant. Obviously if I was to use it for ebooks not yet on it, I would have to sideload them, but can I be bothered.

In reality, the only reason I don't use it for reading, is because it doesn't have the substrate layer for lighting, and the pull-out cover light lights things unevenly. Other than that, and I would prefer it over my Paperwhite, due to page turn buttons.

All that said, I much prefer my Kobo Libra H2O ereader these days.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

People have to care enough to crack them. There's a few unbroken DRM systems out there. Besides, it's not just about breaking the encryption. It's about being able to provide a way for others to duplicate your success with stock equipment/apps (and no reverse-engineering skills). Otherwise few enough people will be doing it that it may as well be called "unbroken." Amazon's probably not going to care if the latest DRM removal strategies require rooted/jailbroken kindle devices. If their goal was to eliminate casual DRM removal, they've probably succeeded. But if their goal was to combat piracy, the rooted device approach to drm-removal will keep that humming along unchanged.

Yes, exactly. All DRM systems might get broken in the sense that someone, somewhere, managed to crack them; but not in the sense that the method will be shared with the general public and people with no IT background or particular computer skills can use it with relative ease.

As to the existence of books not available on well-known pirate sites, yes, there are plenty. Not because they are harder to crack than others, but because the number of books ever published in digital form is so huge that quite a lot escape the notice of pirates. There are just too many ebooks and too few uploaders.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

With books, there's no guarantee that particular version of DRM will be broken; it might be a different method entirely, or none. Anyway, personally I wouldn't buy books with unbroken DRM at all rather than pin my hopes on some future solution that might or might not come to pass.

Indeed, my thoughts exactly.

So right now, I have stopped purchasing from Amazon, though supposedly I can still remove DRM via Kindle For PC, or some other convoluted method I read the other day. It seems likely that Kindle For PC will soon go the way of the Dodo anyway.

I do follow a few authors that only provide their ebooks via Amazon, so I will eventually have to face up to that, which will likely be bad news for those authors.

A couple of them do provide DRM-Free sometimes, but as Amazon makes that impossible to check before buying, that would mean taking a risk.

I should contact those authors, and try to convince them to use Kobo or get them to guarantee DRM-Free.

Having talked to some of them before though, they feel Kindle Unlimited is a necessary evil for enough exposure, which I kind of understand, as it is mostly hard to make a living being a writer.

One author actually made his latest release available via his website, the week before its public release, then stopped that on release due to KU requirements. Be great if more did that, but you have to be willing to pay the asking price, and also be in the know.

[MegDreamsofBooks]

I spent a couple of hours on May 20th doing a jailbreak on my old, unregistered Kindle (non touch) 4. I did have to back it out the first time with a reset, then run through the whole thing again with Airplane Mode on and Calibre services on my PC turned off. But I was able to successfully complete it and installed KoReader, so that’s an option for putting new life on these older devices that Amazon doesn’t support any longer.

I’m actually happy to have a completely disconnected device with no links to any accounts that I can take in my purse and not worry too much if I lose it, especially since I bought the device used originally.

As for books from Amazon, I no longer buy them there unless it is an author that I know allows epub downloads. A lot of authors still don’t support this, so I don’t buy their books. I do still have a Kindle Unlimited membership for at least a few more months and read books that way on my iPad Kindle app, but I haven’t decided if I’m going to continue that or not. Most of my favorite KU authors have figured out how to support non-Amazon pre-orders and I’m happy to buy epubs direct from them instead of supporting Amazon.

@Timboli if you sign up for newsletters from those authors that you want to purchase from, that’s how I find most of my pre-order and direct purchase options. Some of them also use Patreon as a way to distribute outside Amazon.

Most of my ebook purchases these days are from Kobo and Smashwords, or direct from authors, and then loaded into Calibre for use with my OPDS reading app or side-loaded onto my PocketBook.

It took a while to get used to sourcing books from elsewhere, and I ended up setting up a calendar and email address dedicated just to book mail and release dates, but I’m definitely more mindful about my purchases and still have plenty to read without dealing with Amazon.

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by jhowell

Those devices are in an odd state right now. Mine still show as registered on the Devices web page. However no actions are available for them, including deregistering.

I see the books that are present on my newly unsupported devices still showing in the "Device(s) with this item" list when viewed on the Digital Content page of Amazon's web site. So I assume that they are still being counted as present there. Aparently nothing has changed yet in that regard.

My K5 (K4BNT) is totally cut off from Amazon's servers. (But I know WiFi is working because the Experimental Browser works.)

My K5 shows "Archived Items (0)", so I cannot even see my library. I cannot delete downloaded books via the device or Amazon's website. I cannot deregister via the device or Amazon's website. Send to Kindle (both email and app) do not work, so no Personal Docs.

What's particularly annoying is that it seems the couple books I have downloaded will forever be counted on the Content page of Amazon's website as I have no way to remove them. When I try to remove it via the Content page, my K5 is greyed out.


I can't even report the Kindle lost or stolen via the website. Though if I get irritated enough, I will try contacting customer support to see if they will remove the Kindle from my account.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by odamizu

What's particularly annoying is that it seems the couple books I have downloaded will forever be counted on the Content page of Amazon's website as I have no way to remove them. When I try to remove it via the Content page, my K5 is greyed out.

There are definitely some weird inconsistencies in how Amazon is handling these older devices.

I also cannot remove anything from my Kindle Touch using the website ("Delete" is grayed out) but I can remove books using the device itself and the "Device(s) with this item" dialog then changes on the website to reflect that.

I suspect that the current situation is temporary and that these devices will entirely disappear from the website eventually.