Goodreads is a shill for Amazon

[DNSB]

Jon, where did you get that fantasy from? The ISBN was not obtained by Amazon, it was obtained by Hachette. That Amazon screws up and disregards the rule that each different ebook format requires it's own ISBN—and, yes, that means that mobi, KF8 and KFX versions would require their own separate ISBNs—and simply display the ePub ISBN for their various versions is their issue. OTOH, you can get away with quite a bit as long as the content (what the end user sees) is not changed—Kobo uses this to keep the same ISBN for ePub and kepub since a well designed and specification compliant renderer would not show any difference in the display.

OTOH, that you are still trying to push your belief that an ebook that is not an ePub is not a real ebook is simply sad.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Jon, where did you get that fantasy from? The ISBN was not obtained by Amazon, it was obtained by Hachette. That Amazon screws up and disregards the rule that each different ebook format requires it's own ISBN—and, yes, that means that mobi, KF8 and KFX versions would require their own separate ISBNs—and simply display the ePub ISBN for their various versions is their issue. OTOH, you can get away with quite a bit as long as the content (what the end user sees) is not changed—Kobo uses this to keep the same ISBN for ePub and kepub since a well designed and specification compliant renderer would not show any difference in the display.

OTOH, that you are still trying to push your belief that an ebook that is not an ePub is not a real ebook is simply sad.

I'm saying that it's not a Kindle edition so it should not be labeled as a Kindle edition.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I'm saying that it's not a Kindle edition so it should not be labeled as a Kindle edition.

I'm sure ebook=Kindle for quite a lot of people.

Personally I don't really care. Yes, the general ebook edition should not be labeled as specifically Kindle edition, but then Amazon does own Goodreads, so what do you expect? As Goodreads is not where I search for my reading material, it doesn't bother me.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem is that the ISBN is already used for a Kindle edition. So it cannot be used for a real eBook edition listing unless the ISBN is removed from the Kindle edition.

Different paper editions need a different ISBN because it's a unique retail identifier and the 13 digits are also the UPC/EAN.

An ebook doesn't need an ISBN at all, because it's not sold as a physical retail item. If the same epub is uploaded to Amazon, Apple, Kobo, Google, Barnes & Noble, Tolino etc it can optionally have an ISBN. Then even though it might be delivered as mobi/kf7, azw3/kf8, KFX, epub, apple iBook or kepub, it might have the same ISBN, if it has one. If so they will all have the same ISBN. Unlike a paper edition the size and visual layout/formatting is set by the size of the user's screen and their app/ereader formatting. Assume the ISBN refers to the upload to Amazon.

Goodreads would only be a shill if it wasn't owned by Amazon.
It's also well known that it now exists to promote Amazon and non-Amazon links are often removed. It was somewhat broken even before Amazon bought it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ions_by_Amazon

Since Goodreads is wholly owned by Amazon and ISBNs are optional on ebooks and reflowable ebooks (not PDFs) can be user varied in size & format, only a substantially revised / rewritten version needs a different ISBN, if one is used at all.

This is indeed a silly thread!

[bcholfin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem is that the ISBN is already used for a Kindle edition. So it cannot be used for a real eBook edition listing unless the ISBN is removed from the Kindle edition.

As explained above, the ISBN is assigned by the publisher. I oversee ebook production for a uni press. We assign an ISBN to out epub edition. We send that file to Amazon, Apple, Kobo, etc. Everybody gets the same file. The fact that Amazon puts a wrapper on it before they sell it to you makes no difference, edition-wise. It makes no sense for Amazon to assign an ISBN to it; they are not the publisher.

[cfrizz]

JHC! An ebook is an ebook is an ebook! I don't care what ISBNs are on them, so long as I can download it and put it on my devices I'm happy whether it be my Kobo, Boox, my pc or any of my Samsung devices.

This nitpicking BS is just stupid and people need to get a life!

[nana77]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Jon, where did you get that fantasy from? The ISBN was not obtained by Amazon, it was obtained by Hachette. That Amazon screws up and disregards the rule that each different ebook format requires it's own ISBN—and, yes, that means that mobi, KF8 and KFX versions would require their own separate ISBNs—and simply display the ePub ISBN for their various versions is their issue. OTOH, you can get away with quite a bit as long as the content (what the end user sees) is not changed—Kobo uses this to keep the same ISBN for ePub and kepub since a well designed and specification compliant renderer would not show any difference in the display.

OTOH, that you are still trying to push your belief that an ebook that is not an ePub is not a real ebook is simply sad.

Iirc an epub or digital ebook, and a physical book may have the same ISBN, but (e.g.) a paperback and its hardcover version will have a different ISBN.

[JSWolf]

Goodreads should only use an ASIN for a Kindle edition. That way the ISBN can be used for the non Kindle eBook.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by nana77

Iirc an epub or digital ebook, and a physical book may have the same ISBN, but (e.g.) a paperback and its hardcover version will have a different ISBN.

From what I could tell looking at the various bits of information on obtaining an ISBN, each version will require it's own ISBN, hardcover, trade paperback, paperback & ebook. Some sites seem to suggest that different ebook formats will also require separate ISBN (ePub, mobi, KF8, KFX, lit, etc.). However, it seems that currently only ePubs that are available from more than 1 distributor are getting ISBNs since Amazon uses their ASIN identifier. For ePubs from Kobo's Writing Life program, if the author does not wish to pay for an ISBN, they are assigning a Kobo identifier which looks much like an ISBN but starts with 12300 (i.e. 1230005183812).

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by nana77

Iirc an epub or digital ebook, and a physical book may have the same ISBN, but (e.g.) a paperback and its hardcover version will have a different ISBN.

No, an ebook should not share any paper edition ISBN. It may list the ISBN of a paper edition!

However if all formats are automatically created from an epub, they'll automatically have the ISBN of the epub, if it has one. Applies to mobi, azw3, kfx, kepub, Apple Books and epub.

An illustrated vs text only epub ought to have different ISBNs, if they have one at all. A fixed layout ebook version of a reflowable epub should have a different ISBN, if it has one at all.

Paper books retailed in most countries must have an ISBN. Promotional or free paper books not sold anywhere do not need an ISBN.

[JSWolf]

Kindle editions should not use an ISBN number as they then take the ISBN number from the non-Kindle eBook edition. eBook edition should not use an ASIN as they are not Kindle editions.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Kindle editions should not use an ISBN number as they then take the ISBN number from the non-Kindle eBook edition. eBook edition should not use an ASIN as they are not Kindle editions.

Are you a member of the ABA?
The ISBN system was instituted to AVOID edition (and format) confusion when ordering.
So the number is UNIQUE by edition. ANY edition.

e-books were not formats when I was a member (decades ago) , so I no longer get info on changes. But I am also not sure e-books require any ISBN.
The 978-9 series was created for mass marketers to allow (non-bookseller types) to ring up sales.
Those books had 2 barcode version to cater to the seller type.
The UPC type was for simple (jobber stocked?) It had 2 main pieces Publisher and price 0-76714-0699-7 (supplemental) 57831 , 06.99 was the price
Magazines sometimes put the issue number as the supplemental

For the book seller wanting exact inventory they had the EAN (AKA ISBN13)
978-0-671-57831-6 (supplemental) 50699

Not everyone processed the supplemental
Jobbers just wanted to get paid for what sold (they credited the account for what was removed during the next stock cycle)

[JSWolf]

I don’t think you get that what I said should apply only to Goodreads.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I don’t think you get that what I said should apply only to Goodreads.

Nobody gets what you're trying to say, here. That's the problem. Your entire premise is nonsensical.

[bcholfin]

Originally Posted by Quoth

However if all formats are automatically created from an epub, they'll automatically have the ISBN of the epub, if it has one. Applies to mobi, azw3, kfx, kepub, Apple Books and epub.

That is basically the case. The ISBN exists so that the retailer can order the correct product from the publisher. For retail ebook sales, these days that is going to be the epub file. We used to produce a separate mobi file for Amazon, but haven't had to do that for a few years now. (There is also a pdf product for aggregators like EBSCO, DeGruyter, etc., but even those guys have been using epub more lately for accessibility reasons.)