Amazon discontinuing support for older Kindles in May

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

My PW3 works with NoDRM. That's because the WiFi has been off for long enough. It' possible that filling up the free space might solve the DRM problem.

I think that's unlikely. The 'DRM patch' appears to download to reserved storage.

My PW4 has yet not been patched (also applies to 10th generation Kindle basic?).

It's not clear even jailbroken devices can prevent the DRM patch, or revert it. I am hoping for evidence to the contrary, but at this point I assume my PW4 will eventually 'succumb' even if I bother to jailbreak it.

[Kokomo Lee]

I think the Paperwhite was in a bad mood - worked fine this morning. Will try downloading a few more books to see if issue happens again.

[lkmiller]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

My PW3 works with NoDRM. That's because the WiFi has been off for long enough. It' possible that filling up the free space might solve the DRM problem.

Fine for books you already have downloaded, but presumably you've already DeDRMed those. Not useful for anything that still needs to be retrieved.

[Timboli]

I've gone through 11 of the current 27 pages for this thread, and have given up reading more and jumped to the end (last page).

There doesn't seem to be much more to say, and folk are mostly asking the same things and repeating the same things, so I will spare you all that ... though I don't know if the following has been mentioned since page 11.

You buy an ebook, then you buy an E-Ink device to read it, unless you don't care about that. Anyway, for those of us who do care, that one ebook is awfully expensive.

But as you buy more ebooks, you gradually reduce what you paid for your device, for your reading experience of an ebook.

At some point, with enough ebooks, your device costs you next to nothing. Of course that's not entirely true, as you have to regularly charge it, and so pay for the electricity.

Now most people upgrade their device at some point, so you start the get value for money process all over again. So essentially the cost of two devices now has to be spread over your ebook collection. But maybe it doesn't end there and you buy yet another ereader device and maybe another eventually, etc.

So the sum cost of all your ereader devices is spread over your ebook collection.

Now if you have several hundred ebooks or your ebook collection runs into the thousands, then the financial situation is likely not a big deal. So you probably won't be impacted much, when Amazon deliberately disable one or more of your older devices.

However, if you don't have a lot of ebooks from Amazon, and now have to buy a new ereader from them, then suddenly it becomes quite an expense to just be able to read those few ebooks you have.

And if your old Kindle device still works fine, perhaps because you haven't read a lot of ebooks on it, but then it becomes redundant at the whim of Amazon, how fair is that. Not fair at all. Maybe you've never had a lot of money to spend on ebooks, and you broke the bank to get your old Kindle ereader, and now Amazon want you to do so again.

So once again, it's not the affluent who are being penalized in any meaningful way, but the poorer folk in our communities.

Some folk here have mentioned how badly older devices work, which I cannot relate to. My Keyboard Kindle for instance, still works perfectly fine, still very responsive, battery still lasts long enough. Sure, it doesn't compare to more modern devices, but it worked well enough when I got it and still does. And storage capacity isn't everything.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Timboli

However, if you don't have a lot of ebooks from Amazon, and now have to buy a new ereader from them, then suddenly it becomes quite an expense to just be able to read those few ebooks you have.

You make a very good point. If someone bought their Kindle, justifying it's initial price by planning to use it over time as more eBooks were purchased, and then Amazon comes along and says NO, you can't use the Kindle you bought for new eBook purchases - that is definitely a slap in the face.

I abandoned Barnes&Noble and their Nook for lesser transgressions than this. Let's just hope Kobo still makes decent stuff when my (permanently offline) PW3 finally bites the dust. A replacement eReader from Amazon is not in my future. I'm thinking (hoping!) that Kobo is better than Amazon, but I haven't owned one yet so I don't know from personal experience.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by lkmiller

Fine for books you already have downloaded, but presumably you've already DeDRMed those. Not useful for anything that still needs to be retrieved.

We don't know that. I've not yet tried my PW3. I will when that's my last option after K4PC is done for.

I'm going to fill up the space on my PW3 so maybe it won't have enough space to download the new DRM.

[Frogm4n]

Originally Posted by Timboli

And if your old Kindle device still works fine, perhaps because you haven't read a lot of ebooks on it, but then it becomes redundant at the whim of Amazon, how fair is that. Not fair at all. Maybe you've never had a lot of money to spend on ebooks, and you broke the bank to get your old Kindle ereader, and now Amazon want you to do so again.

Amazon is stopping service to devices that are 14 years old. If your plan was to expect longer service support than that then your plan was flawed. That's longer support than just about any other device from any other brand. It's not about "fair" at that age. I'm frankly surprised they kept supporting them for this long at all.

[Josieb1]

Originally Posted by Frogm4n

Amazon is stopping service to devices that are 14 years old. If your plan was to expect longer service support than that then your plan was flawed. That's longer support than just about any other device from any other brand. It's not about "fair" at that age. I'm frankly surprised they kept supporting them for this long at all.

It all depends on what you mean by stopping support. We have iPods that are older than our kindles, I can still put music on them using iTunes even though they aren’t supported anymore. I have an old iPhone 6s, again I can still use it and it connects to Apple okay. Apple hasn’t blocked those devices from their stores and iTunes. Amazon is blocking the old kindles from their stores Amazon servers.

[Timboli]

Originally Posted by Frogm4n

Amazon is stopping service to devices that are 14 years old. If your plan was to expect longer service support than that then your plan was flawed. That's longer support than just about any other device from any other brand. It's not about "fair" at that age. I'm frankly surprised they kept supporting them for this long at all.

That's because you've bought into the mentality, like so many, that everything needs to be replaced, when that doesn't always need to be the case, especially when something is still working perfectly fine.

An ereader device, is not like your computer, it's a tool that does something quite specific. If it still does that properly, then why should it be replaced?

It's a money based con job, when they force you to upgrade needlessly. Where is the pressing need? Security my ass. If they can tell what your device is and block it, they can also limit what your device has access to.

While I don't believe in DRM, Amazon can mount a fair argument, that older devices cannot download new ebooks. But they should still be able to download all the ones they have been able to, especially if DRM-Free.

They could just let our old Kindles die a natural death, when they are ready.

This deliberate move to make devices redundant without good reason, is just another side of locking us into a store.

I'm lucky enough to be one of those who won't really be impacted, because I have thousands of purchased ebooks, but I bet there are plenty of folk that will be impacted.

An ereader device is an integral part of an ebook, it isn't some kind of tech toy you can just toss away after a few years.

There will be some folk, who have maybe only bought something like 50 ebooks, which when you add the cost of a device, makes each ebook quite expensive. Forced to buy another device, then you are increasing that expense quite a bit. Some might even feel they cannot justify that added cost, just to read or re-read an ebook.

Those who have plenty of money no doubt don't care, but Amazon should also be thinking about those who are less fortunate.

[Frogm4n]

Originally Posted by Timboli

That's because you've bought into the mentality, like so many, that everything needs to be replaced

No, I haven't. I'm looking at this from a realistic, not idealistic, point of view.

An ereader device, is not like your computer, it's a tool that does something quite specific. If it still does that properly, then why should it be replaced?

And these Kindles will work fine, just not with Amazon's servers. They'll still read sideloaded content like they always have.

It's a money based con job, when they force you to upgrade needlessly. Where is the pressing need? Security my ass. If they can tell what your device is and block it, they can also limit what your device has access to.

Of course it's money: the cost of "fixing" the old protocols on these old devices vs any lost customer base by cutting them off. That's why I wrote earlier that I'm surprised they let them go this long in the face of ancient protocols and security. That stuff is my job, I know exactly the kind of work it is to support ancient devices in the wild.

They could just let our old Kindles die a natural death, when they are ready.

This deliberate move to make devices redundant without good reason, is just another side of locking us into a store.

They will continue to read current content and sideloaded content. This constant refrain that they will be useless after the cutoff date is vastly overblown.

[tomsem]

I would guess relatively few of the affected devices are still registered and operational, compared to number sold, at least to the original buyer.

The only reason I still have a Kindle Touch is for the potential of DRM removal, and I never actually needed to resort to it. You would have to pay me to read anything on it. I had the first Paperwhite at one point, it was in some ways more unpleasant than Kindle Touch (murkier display, uneven lighting, no TTS, only 2GB storage).

I'm happy to get $5 and a pre-paid return label to get rid of it.

Compared to Microsoft abandoning Windows 10 systems, soon to be subject to AI-discovered security holes, it is as nothing.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Timboli

There will be some folk, who have maybe only bought something like 50 ebooks, which when you add the cost of a device, makes each ebook quite expensive. Forced to buy another device, then you are increasing that expense quite a bit. Some might even feel they cannot justify that added cost, just to read or re-read an ebook.

That would work out to four or fewer books per year. I think it's unlikely that someone who read that little would have invested in an ereader; you're also talking about an amortized cost of maybe $10 per year. However you look at it, the cost of those ancient devices has been fully amortized. No rational discount rate would have had a person projecting out 15 years or more on an electric device. And of course they explicitly don't need a new device to read the books they already bought, so no need to play the violin on that score.

I do get it. For someone who's been perfectly happy with their legacy device, the hit of having to buy a new one stings. But I think your economic analysis is wrong headed and tends to prove the opposite of what you intended.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Frogm4n

Amazon is stopping service to devices that are 14 years old. If your plan was to expect longer service support than that then your plan was flawed. That's longer support than just about any other device from any other brand.

The below is my OPINION PIECE.

Amazon is not "stopping support". They haven't been doing anything to support the devices for a long time. No more firmware updates, etc.

What Amazon is doing is banning them from accessing your purchased books. They required downloads to go via WiFi when they banned Download and Transfer. Then they banned the devices from using WiFi access.

If Amazon had said (probably falsely) that they had to ban WiFi access for security reasons, but left Download and Transfer as an alternate way to purchase and use books, then that might not have been so bad (but it was still bad IMHO). Or, Amazon could have stopped Download and Transfer and allowed WiFi transfer (as they initially did). But no, they did not do this. They banned BOTH Download and Transfer AND WiFi access. That is not "stopping support". That is "intentionally making a device useless".

There's a big difference in what Amazon did compared to "stopping support". They already stopped support for these devices many years ago. But yet, these devices were still used by many. Until now. Yes, you can still use them if you are technically competent. Buy your ebooks elsewhere - not from Amazon - remove DRM, convert from EPUB to AZW3, and sideload them.

...and hope that Amazon has not already slipped their code to disable sideloading into your device. They'll probably be activating that code next, IMHO. I would advise people to keep their devices offline permanently to avoid Amazon activating that code, if it exists. I wouldn't doubt that it does. And I wouldn't buy any more books from Amazon either. I might guess that they're implementing or at least researching how to add code to their ebooks themselves, that would work in conjunction with their stealth code in your Kindle, that would permanently alter the way a Kindle behaves after opening that ebook. I wouldn't put it past them based on prior behavior. They're already reportedly making DRM changes using a stealth channel outside of the normal firmware uprgrade channel. IMHO, keep those Kindles permanently offline people. That's currently the safest bet when dealing with Amazon. Yeah, my paranoia is real. So is what Amazon is doing.

Amazon offers "features" that entice you to register your Kindle and keep it online. And to buy newer Kindle hardware. There's a reason behind that, and that reason is probably not to your benefit. We're seeing that unfold right before our eyes.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by issybird

And of course they explicitly don't need a new device to read the books they already bought, so no need to play the violin on that score.

They don't need a new device to actually read the book, but they need a new device to be able to download it so that they can read it. Of course, if they download it via the new device then they won't be able to read it on the old device since it is encrypted solely for the new device. So they're kind of stuck.

I will never consider buying a book that I can't download and safely store locally immediately after purchase. I did that for a few books many years ago, and Barnes&Noble taught me the error of my ways. But many people don't follow this protocol. They trusted Amazon when they said you could leave your purchases on their servers and download them later when you wanted to read them (just as B&N promised me that for those few books years ago). Well, so much for that...

[haertig]

Originally Posted by issybird

That would work out to four or fewer books per year. I think it's unlikely that someone who read that little would have invested in an ereader

I present myself as an example case for you.

I read more now that I'm retired, but back when I bought both of my ereaders, you nailed me with the above description.