Amazon dropping support for more Kindles

[DiapDealer]

Like I said: I get it. But I still believe that people limit themselves more with their own penchants and preferences than DRM from any ebook retailer does. I consider myself lucky that the ability to change the size of the font is the only consistent advantage that I've noticed when moving from physical books to ebooks (aside from being able to buy, download, and begin reading immediately of course).

[haertig]

I think people stance on DRM just boils down to renters vs. owners.

Some people are perfectly happy to rent their home. Others would never do that, and want to own their home. Neither is right. Neither is wrong. It's just a personal preference. And people will do things to make their preferences happen.

A renter may look at their landlord and wonder why they'd put up with the hassle of property taxes, maintenance, and local regulations. And a landlord may look at their tenant and wonder how they can be happy with someone else owning where they live and effectively controlling their destiny.

It's a difference in how you look at things. If you want to own a home, you will put up with the obstacles in your way to do that. If you don't like obstacles, renting is far easier (usually). Whatever path makes you happiest is the way to go for you.

[DiapDealer]

I'm an owner in every aspect of my life. I don't rent anything. I just don't give a fig about DRM. The price I'm paying to read a book once is more than satisfactory to me. In fact, I find it to be a bargain considering the amount of joy I get from reading. I buy a lovely experience. Then I buy another. It was no different with physical books in my adult life. I don't keep books. Period. I wring every bit of value out of them in one read.

Your buy vs rent analogy is insufficient. Nothing ever boils down that simply.

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by haertig

I think people stance on DRM just boils down to renters vs. owners ...

How are you defining "renter" and "owner"?

Because most (all?) epub vendors are just selling you a content license (even the beloved Kobo).

As far as I can tell, the main difference is that Amazon's Terms of Service are increasingly difficult to circumvent, whereas Kobo's Terms of Service are easy to break.

So does "renting" mean being forced to abide by Terms of Service whereas "owning" means being able to circumvent Terms of Service?

(I say all this as someone who likes to be able to circumvent Terms of Service, though not enough that I will stop buying from Amazon when the DRM apocalypse arrives )

[haertig]

Originally Posted by odamizu

How are you defining "renter" and "owner"?
...
So does "renting" mean being forced to abide by Terms of Service whereas "owning" means being able to circumvent Terms of Service?

That is actually a very good definition in the context of eBooks.

[nana77]

Originally Posted by haertig

I think people stance on DRM just boils down to renters vs. owners.

Some people are perfectly happy to rent their home. Others would never do that, and want to own their home. Neither is right. Neither is wrong. It's just a personal preference. And people will do things to make their preferences happen.

What's weird, imho, is if in 2026 do persons has to buy something without having, very detailing, searched and acknowledged enought about, while anyone has an "internet phone".
In past times it would had been different, but as I read that this happened before, some newest buyer might give a look at what he's/she's buying, actually.
Rather than the legal aspects, imho is the way the reading experience would be alike, that can be proper or not to personals' preferences.
If you say me that keeping on Amazon's way a book can even be modified during updates, nay imho.

[nana77]

Originally Posted by haertig

I think people stance on DRM just boils down to renters vs. owners.

Some people are perfectly happy to rent their home. Others would never do that, and want to own their home. Neither is right. Neither is wrong. It's just a personal preference. And people will do things to make their preferences happen.

A renter may look at their landlord and wonder why they'd put up with the hassle of property taxes, maintenance, and local regulations. And a landlord may look at their tenant and wonder how they can be happy with someone else owning where they live and effectively controlling their destiny.

It's a difference in how you look at things. If you want to own a home, you will put up with the obstacles in your way to do that. If you don't like obstacles, renting is far easier (usually). Whatever path makes you happiest is the way to go for you.

Also, and by reading the posts, I guess it can be said that certainly anyone buy the format, not the DRM, nor "the novel"; but on physical books either you won't buy the novel: "you" can't copy, or change and redistribute it, you certailny owns the format (the physical book).

In some places, if you are a landlord, you owns the house, you can own a car, but a tree isn't yours: it always belongs to the forest (but you'd be responsible of its care).

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by odamizu

How are you defining "renter" and "owner"?
...
So does "renting" mean being forced to abide by Terms of Service whereas "owning" means being able to circumvent Terms of Service?

Originally Posted by haertig

That is actually a very good definition in the context of eBooks.

I disagree. I think it's the difference between being an oath-keeper and an oath-breaker rather than "renter" and "owner."

(And I say that as a confessed oath-breaker.)

[Josieb1]

I look at it quite simply, for me anyway, when I “Buy” an ebook I’ve bought it. I selected the word “Buy” not Rent, or Buy a Licence to Read. As far as I am concerned I bought that book and should be able to read it on any device I want.

I spent years buying ebooks direct from publishers and retailers other than Amazon and Kobo, all those publishers and retailers have closed. If I had not downloaded my ebooks I would have lost them (looking at you Fictionwise and the other 11 publishers I bought direct from). I am not doing that with Kobo and Amazon, if I cannot download and remove the DRM I will not buy.

I will pay monthly for Kindle Unlimited as I accept I am borrowing from a library I am paying a fee to use. And I will buy free books but that’s it as far as I am concerned.

[jonathan2022]

Let's ask the question no one is asking. When you buy anything digital you are renting it no matter what. So if you had the option of buying not renting your ebook. Would it be more expensive? Could you get it drrm free. Drm free options are still rented downloads.

[Josieb1]

Originally Posted by jonathan2022

Let's ask the question no one is asking. When you buy anything digital you are renting it no matter what. So if you had the option of buying not renting your ebook. Would it be more expensive? Could you get it drrm free. Drm free options are still rented downloads.

That doesn’t apply to everything. Music is purchased when bought digitally and can be copied onto a CD Disc or played in any device that supports AAC. Music used to have DRM when Apple first introduced us to ITunes but it doesn’t now. So why put it on ebooks.

[Josieb1]

Originally Posted by jonathan2022

Let's ask the question no one is asking. When you buy anything digital you are renting it no matter what. So if you had the option of buying not renting your ebook. Would it be more expensive? Could you get it drrm free. Drm free options are still rented downloads.

Also, if I buy an ebook from Smashwords, or BookFunnel (which authors use) or direct from Grace Burrows website (to name one author I buy from) I am buying an ebook. It’s mine to read on any device I want.

[jonathan2022]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

Also, if I buy an ebook from Smashwords, or BookFunnel (which authors use) or direct from Grace Burrows website (to name one author I buy from) I am buying an ebook. It’s mine to read on any device I want.

I have got ebooks from smashswords before. wish more authors use the site. gives you options on which format to download. I get newsletters with BookFunnel . all the ones I have got from authors using BookFunnel were free. Didnt know they had a buy option. other links in the newsletter just took me to amazon. If dedrming becomes harder I may just read books from newsletters.

Just found my first book with option to buy on Bookfunnel. weird.

[jonathan2022]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

That doesn’t apply to everything. Music is purchased when bought digitally and can be copied onto a CD Disc or played in any device that supports AAC. Music used to have DRM when Apple first introduced us to ITunes but it doesn’t now. So why put it on ebooks.

I wish all books were drm free on Amazon as well not just a select few. I feel like that would only ever happen if all publishers and authors stopped pushing for drm.

[Josieb1]

Originally Posted by jonathan2022

I have got ebooks from smashswords before. wish more authors use the site. gives you options on which format to download. I get newsletters with BookFunnel . all the ones I have got from authors using BookFunnel were free. Didnt know they had a buy option. other links in the newsletter just took me to amazon. If dedrming becomes harder I may just read books from newsletters.

Just found my first book with option to buy on Bookfunnel. weird.

Some authors I follow sell books via their websites but the delivery method is via BookFunnel.