Amazon dropping support for more Kindles

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Is it then okay to criticize Amazon for their endless DRM changes? For pushing hidden updates to older devices to enable those DRM changes?

Apple implemented their DRM quite a while back and so far, no one has taken the time and trouble to try breaking it.

Kobo is currently using three versions of DRM. Adobe ADEPT which has been broken for quite a while since very few implementations of Adobe's hardened DRM are to be found in the wild, KDRM which has been broken for a few years, while in Europe, LCP DRM seems to be a choice.

Some ebook vendors have switched to LCP which is being protected by DCMA takedown notices which, not very surprisingly, have not been very effective for sites outside the USA.

LCP has been broken. And DeDRM also has support for Adobe's hardened DRM. So basically it's just Amazon's new KFX DRM and Apple's DRM that are not yet broken.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Is it then okay to criticize Amazon for their endless DRM changes? For pushing hidden updates to older devices to enable those DRM changes?

Sure. That's fair. I don't care about it in particular, but at least it's not hammering Amazon for something everyone else is doing.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

One thing Amazon is doing differently is changing the DRM such that it may be impossible to remove the DRM. And if it is possible, it would most likely take a jailbroken Kindle.

As I've already told you about this: I prefer to wait until "may be impossible" becomes "is impossible" before angsting over it. "May be impossible" is the same thing as "not yet impossible." But you go ahead and hammer them over it. It barely qualifies as different to me (most ebook retailers benefit from DRM, so it seems a bit weird to me to give credit to some just because theirs is easier to break), but different is different, I guess.

I understand buying from where the DRM is more easily broken (for those who stockpile ebooks for future reading), but that's different from being mad at Amazon, because they don't allow their DRM to remain easily broken. If removing DRM from all your purchases is important to you, then by all means, switch to a retailer that makes that easier for you. No need to get mad about it.

[nana77]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

I have no idea why my screen shot had a basket button. I haven't ever used one for Kindle books.

But I've just tried and yes, I could add that Kindle book to a basket.

Might that be just for the physical books, not the e-ones ?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by nana77

Might that be just for the physical books, not the e-ones ?

Considering part of the image says "By clicking the above button, you agree to the Kindle Store Terms of Use? Highly doubtful that they were purchasing a physical book.

[pdurrant]

Amazon do/did have a better official policy on ebooks. They said that if you bought a licence, anyone you allowed to have one of your registered devices could read the book. Other retailers have said that only the person buying the licence is allowed to read the book.

IMO, a licence to an ebook should
(a) be perpetual
(b) be transferable
(c) allow family members and close friends to read the book. E.g. people you'd trust with your credit card

With DRM none of those are true.

[JSWolf]

eBooks.com has added LCP DRM. So when you buy ePub, you get to decide which form of DRM you want. Do you want LCP of Adept? You can still choose which DRM even after you've chosen on the initial download.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Amazon do/did have a better official policy on ebooks. They said that if you bought a licence, anyone you allowed to have one of your registered devices could read the book. Other retailers have said that only the person buying the licence is allowed to read the book.

IMO, a licence to an ebook should
(a) be perpetual
(b) be transferable
(c) allow family members and close friends to read the book. E.g. people you'd trust with your credit card

With DRM none of those are true.

I don't care what the license has said. I do share some eBooks with some family. I know they won't be uploading to the net. So all is good.

[lkmiller]

Originally Posted by odamizu

Y'all know that at Kobo, you are also just purchasing a content license, not the actual book, right?

This was my actual point. When Quoth said that buying ebooks was more like a lease, I replied that it was buying a content license as Amazon now says up front (in some places). Never meant that only Amazon does that.

[DrNefario]

I don’t actually mind that it’s effectively a rental if I’m paying rental prices.

[lkmiller]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Amazon do/did have a better official policy on ebooks. They said that if you bought a licence, anyone you allowed to have one of your registered devices could read the book. Other retailers have said that only the person buying the licence is allowed to read the book.

IMO, a licence to an ebook should
(a) be perpetual
(b) be transferable
(c) allow family members and close friends to read the book. E.g. people you'd trust with your credit card

With DRM none of those are true.

B&N's original DRM allowed (c) literally. You could open the book with the name and cc# of the default credit card on file at the time of download. Of course, they changed it and starting making it harder to get your hands on the actual book files.

eta: Amazon does allow 2 people to link accounts and share ebooks and other digital content. My husband and I have this setup. He buys most of his ebooks from Amazon, never bothers to remove DRM, and reads them in the app on his Boox ereader.

[DrNefario]

The issue, I think, with Amazon, is that they seem to be heading to a completely sealed ecosystem, where you can't even access a file that represents your book, DRMed or not. They've removed Download & Transfer, they're changing the way the PC app works, they've changed the way kindles connect to a PC.

Black Library have just done this - going from a DRM-free store for EPUB and MOBI to a closed app ecosystem, and I won't be buying any more books direct from them as a result.

Apple have always been like this. Despite their claims to be using industry-standard EPUBs, I don't think it's actually possible to get at the EPUB files. (Maybe with a jailbroken device?) And that's why I have never bought anything from them.

It would be bad if Amazon did the same.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DrNefario

The issue, I think, with Amazon, is that they seem to be heading to a completely sealed ecosystem, where you can't even access a file that represents your book, DRMed or not. They've removed Download & Transfer, they're changing the way the PC app works, they've changed the way kindles connect to a PC.

Black Library have just done this - going from a DRM-free store for EPUB and MOBI to a closed app ecosystem, and I won't be buying any more books direct from them as a result.

Apple have always been like this. Despite their claims to be using industry-standard EPUBs, I don't think it's actually possible to get at the EPUB files. (Maybe with a jailbroken device?) And that's why I have never bought anything from them.

It would be bad if Amazon did the same.

The problem is Amazon is doing the same thing.

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by DrNefario

The issue, I think, with Amazon, is that they seem to be heading to a completely sealed ecosystem, where you can't even access a file that represents your book, DRMed or not. They've removed Download & Transfer, they're changing the way the PC app works, they've changed the way kindles connect to a PC.

Black Library have just done this - going from a DRM-free store for EPUB and MOBI to a closed app ecosystem, and I won't be buying any more books direct from them as a result.

Apple have always been like this. Despite their claims to be using industry-standard EPUBs, I don't think it's actually possible to get at the EPUB files. (Maybe with a jailbroken device?) And that's why I have never bought anything from them.

It would be bad if Amazon did the same.

AFAIK, it is possible for Apple, or was, but it requires a very old activated install of iTunes or a Mac with a bunch of security features disabled.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by DrNefario

I don’t actually mind that it’s effectively a rental if I’m paying rental prices.

Google has several mostly older backlist titles available for 3 or 7-day rental. This is an example that is available to me--


https://play.google.com/store/books/...d=Lpq8BbMhJ58C