Amazon discontinuing support for older Kindles in May

[DiapDealer]

I agree that if jailbreaking is required to remove DRM, it probably makes more sense to just not buy Kindle books. I'm in wait and see mode on it. I don't bother to remove DRM any more, but I've always been interested in the reverse engineering techniques to accomplish DRM removal.

Typically, if DRM removal becomes "not currently possible" (never "impossible") for a long enough period of time, someone on the inside will drop a few anonymous breadcrumbs.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Typically, if DRM removal becomes "not currently possible" (never "impossible") for a long enough period of time, someone on the inside will drop a few anonymous breadcrumbs.

That's interesting, I didn't know that.

[lkmiller]

Previous methods figured out encryption. Current Kindle for PC method exploits the app itself and so far has been updated each time the app has been updated. We will see what happens with the Windows store app, and if the desktop Kindle for PC app functions at all after June. Don't know if anyone has done more than speculate about the Kindle situation.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

That it has been defeated so far doesn't necessarily mean it always will be.

I'm hoping it can be defeated using the new K4PC from the MS store. The problem with the Kindle method is that it's not possible to get at wherever it is Amazon put the new DRM unless the Kindle is jailbroken.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem with the Kindle method is that it's not possible to get at wherever it is Amazon put the new DRM unless the Kindle is jailbroken.

It is not yet known what may or may not be able to be done without jailbreaking at this point. It could turn out to be true, but let's wait until more is known before throwing statements like yours out as if they are fact.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

... but let's wait until more is known before throwing statements like yours out as if they are fact.

That goes against every fiber of his being.

[odamizu]

FWIW, I believe jhowell when he says:

Originally Posted by jhowell

... This new DRM [in 5.18.5 and later] uses an account secret stored in an inaccessible location as part of the key needed to unlock the encryption of the book. The only hope of being able to remove it requires access to that storage, which is only possible if the device was jailbroken prior to being updated to the new firmware.

I also believe Sats (maintainer/creator of the code that works with the current K4PC), who wrote:

Originally Posted by Sats

... In about 5.18.5, Kindles started using account secret, which is a string that is sent by Amazon to device when it registers. Since it is hidden in a place user cannot access without jailbreak, even if the derivation algorithm was known, one cannot run it, since it is missing data.

For 5.16.2.1.1, they added new derivation algorithm (before it was using the shared one which was also in K4PC), and used an odd method that injects it at runtime. It is not even in the firmware image, so presumably they can update it at will. I don't have Kindle, but I guess, in theory and qemu it is possible to deal with that, but then Amazon might just add account secret (there is place for it in that firmware) and then we are stuck again.

Likewise, Mac. Account secret is stuck in a place only accessible to apps signed by Amazon and Apple, unless one disables SIP. With SIP off, Kindle memory can be accessed and secret can be pulled, or other approaches can be taken (as epubor does, I assume), but as mentioned, I am not going to publish something that requires one to disable system protection, and then learn how to compile and sign executables. Most people that can do that reliably have their own ways if they feel like it ...

And again likewise, Android. I don't even know where they hide dsn/secret, but it is not user-accessible without root, i believe. I did publish an awkward frida script that used to work to get book keys from memory (though it crashed the app quickly, after 1-2 keys), but they fixed it in one of the later versions.

Do I believe the new DRM on eink Kindles and the forthcoming Kindle for Windows will be broken? Yes. I believe it's likely some developer will find a way around the new DRM (if they haven't already). In fact, I know of unpublished workable methods that developers are keeping close to the vest because 1) they don't want Amazon to know and 2) it requires technical skills beyond most users (including me) so would not be usable by the masses anyway.

Do I believe there will be widely available and easily implemented methods for removing DRM from Kindle books in the future, the way DeDRM plugin 10.0.9 was widely distributed and easily implemented? No. I believe the days of plugins like DeDRM 10.0.9 are in the past. Case in point: while there is a DeDRM plugin that works with Kindle for PC 2.8 and later, it requires extra steps that are more than less-technically minded people can manage. Likewise for Kindle for Android. I think this is what the future of DeDRM looks like. Extra steps like jailbreaking, etc. required, and only if a developer decides to make their work public.

However, Epubor and other such outfits may continue to offer paid tools that work if you are willing to open up your system to them by disabling SIP (System Integrity Protection) for Mac and whatever equivalent may be for Windows, which sounds like a very, very bad idea to me.

So, I don't think this is a case of "wash-rinse-repeat." I think Amazon has upped the ante considerably. But what do I know. YMMV

ETA: Do I plan to stop buying Kindle ebooks when DRM removal methods are beyond my technical abilities? No. I will be annoyed, but not enough to switch platforms.

[Regina]

so far, jailbreaks have attacked the system image. Now, Amazon seems to have the capability to upgrade DRM without changing the system image. This calls for 2 types of jailbreaks. One is the existing one for the system image, which may not work anymore due to additional protection of security image. The second is related to update of DRM contents which I believe is a bit unclear for now. If this DRM update process is identified and broken into, we may have some option to do deDRM.

[Regina]

Anyone has tried deleting the contents of /var/local/hjkl folder and seen what happens?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by odamizu

FWIW, I believe jhowell when he says:

I also believe Sats (maintainer/creator of the code that works with the current K4PC), who wrote:

I too believe what they both have said about the new KFX DRM being unable to accessible without a jailbroken Kindle.

That's why I said what I said.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Regina

so far, jailbreaks have attacked the system image. Now, Amazon seems to have the capability to upgrade DRM without changing the system image. This calls for 2 types of jailbreaks. One is the existing one for the system image, which may not work anymore due to additional protection of security image. The second is related to update of DRM contents which I believe is a bit unclear for now. If this DRM update process is identified and broken into, we may have some option to do deDRM.

I wonder if it's possible to make an app for a jailbroken Kindle that prevents this DRM update.

[Sats]

Originally Posted by Regina

Anyone has tried deleting the contents of /var/local/hjkl folder and seen what happens?

I don't have Kindle to experiment on, and so I can only speculate. My speculation is: it will either try to download it again or, of the amazon servers already registered your Kindle as "updated", you will get books with new DRM and no way to open them.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I wonder if it's possible to make an app for a jailbroken Kindle that prevents this DRM update.

No clue. Once again, though, will that also stop from Amazon marking DSN as "send new DRM there"? Assuming they do that. It may just refuse sending books until update is done, as well.

[vermontcathy]

Originally Posted by curtw

Well, I intended to do that. But I stupidly did a factory reset first (because it was the fastest way to remove all 865 books I had previously downloaded and backed up. They were slowing responsiveness). Found out the hard way that the email is somewhat deceptive, and the ability to re-register the device has ALREADY been disabled.

This isn't true - I've registered K3s, K4s, and K5s in the past few days. But registering these things is a pain in the ass. Check these steps (key step being to restart after putting in email & pw, BEFORE putting in the code that is sent to you). https://www.reddit.com/r/kindle/comm..._a_k3_k4_k5_i/

Also, once you've got it registered, here's a link that will show all your games, so you can quickly send them all to your K3 - https://www.amazon.com/hz/mycd/digit...ntent/dateDsc/

[axu2]

Curiously, Send to Kindle now converts fixed layout EPUBs (edit for clarification, this means comics/manga) to KFX for compatible kindle models/apps, when it previously converted to AZW3 before. This started sometime this month.

Though Kindle for PC and non kfx kindles still receives AZW3 afaik.

Really seems Amazon is trying to kill AZW3 delivery.

[texasnightowl]

Originally Posted by axu2

Though Kindle for PC and non kfx kindles still receives AZW3 afaik.

Kindle for PC has been kfx, not azw3 for a long time now. I forget if it was version 1.19 or 1.17 but either way, k4pc has been kfx for years. It was possible to get 1.17 to run and receive books for a while but I don't know if it is still possible currently. I do know even if you did have it running that at one point it would no longer receive newly published books.