Amazon discontinuing support for older Kindles in May

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Regina

Summary of what I read in few posts

These older Kindle devices do not support recent TLS versions. TLS - Transport Layer Security. Something to do with security when the device connects to server. Amazon servers currently accept old version of TLS and hence, everything works. Whenever the day comes, I think that Amazon servers will switch off the support for old TLS versions and the devices would not be able to communicate with Amazon servers and hence, would lose functionality.

As per Gemini, TLS v1.3 is current standard, v1.2 is transition state. v1.0 and v1.1 are deprecated. So, I think that they are killing TLS v1.0 and v1.1 which would render these older devices useless (with respect to connecting to Amazon servers).

TLS version is irrelevant for the K3 and later. They already don't work for the store or most of the internet (and the browsers were always poor anyway). The earlier models hardly connect at all, maybe the DXG in some places with GSM-EDGE. It costs Amazon nothing and is no risk to allow the models to connect. Or bring back in Browser downloads for all ebooks and then the Kindles don't need to connect and even the ones with a Cell service can work via USB. As of yesterday Amazon was still paying for the SIM access in my DXG on GSM (EDGE)!

Also do not quote Google Gemini. Totally unreliable garbage wasting the environment. Use regular search and quote real sources.


It's not about security, it's about the later firmwares that can't run on old Kindles to let Amazon spy effectively and control. The way KU works is to suit Amazon at the expense of user Privacy and author payment.

[haertig]

FWIW:
---
My PW3 is unregistered and in permanent Airplane Mode, and I've been sideloading to it (using Calibre) and using the device for years while in this state. No problems. Works fine.

History and usage of this device:
---
It was bought in Oct 2017. Initially I registered it. It started freezing up. I updated firmware, did factory resets, but that did not fix the problem. Eventually I sent it back to Amazon for diagnosis and repair. They sent it back with a note saying that they updated the firmware (to the same version that I had previously updated it to). It still froze up. And then, a few weeks or months later, it stopped freezing up. And it hasn't frozen up again to this day - 8 years later. Whatever ... it evidently fixed itself.

But somehow in that lockup period back in 2017 it became unregistered. I don't know if that happened when I was updating firmware, doing factory resets, or when Amazon got their hands on it and did the same things. I never bothered to re-register it because there was no compelling reason for me to do so. It still sideloaded books just fine, and that is the only way I have ever put any ebook onto the device. I might have updated the firmware since Amazon sent the device back to me in 2017. I can't really remember. But if I did update firmware, that would have been done by sideloading the update file(s) to the device myself, no via some online connection to Amazon.

After getting the device back from Amazon, I nuked its online access using redundant techniques: I zapped the Kindles memory of any usable WiFi passwords by changing all passwords on my WiFi router (it shouldn't have remembered any passwords anyway since had just been factory reset), I configured my router to reject any and all connection attempts for the Kindles MAC address, and I put the Kindle in permanent Airplane Mode. So Amazon hasn't touched it since. Or at least not since it got its current version 5.9.4 firmware installed on it (whether that version was a manual sideload by me, or just the way it came back from Amazon in 2017, I simply can't remember).

---
Based on my experience, I would not expect any problems from de-registering or factory resetting the devices now. HOWEVER, my experiences are based on using the 5.9.4 firmware - and things may have changed in more recent firmware versions. De-registering and/or factory resetting may not be so benign these days if you're running newer firmware. Amazon could have theoretically added new "brick the device" code to the firmware that triggers upon de-registering or factory resetting.

[vermontcathy]

Originally Posted by haertig

FWIW:
Based on my experience, I would not expect any problems from de-registering or factory resetting the devices now. HOWEVER, my experiences are based on using the 5.9.4 firmware - and things may have changed in more recent firmware versions. De-registering and/or factory resetting may not be so benign these days if you're running newer firmware. Amazon could have theoretically added new "brick the device" code to the firmware that triggers upon de-registering or factory resetting.

I've got the newest firmware on K3 and K4, and also recently updated and tested a 1st PW. All worked fine unregistered.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Yapyap

I’m sure it’s global somehow - just wondering what sort of credit they’d offer to someone who cannot buy a Kindle device from Amazon.com but must buy Kindle books on Amazon.com…

I suppose I might find out some day. Or not. Still no e-mail re: my Paperwhite.

ETA: I guess sending out the e-mails is going to take a while - it’s obviously being done in batches.

I would hope that the EU could force Amazon to keep supporting the older Kindles from the PW3 on up.

[JSWolf]

I agree that Amazon saying it's for security or it's too difficult to support older models is BS. This is all about DRM.

[haertig]

1. You buy a Kindle years ago
2. You buy a lot of ebooks from Amazon
3. You initially have the ability to download your ebook purchases now, for immediate use, or later, for future use
4. You buy more ebooks from Amazon than will fit in your Kindles memory
5. Amazon disallows Download&Transfer, so you cannot download your ebook purchases that won't fit on your Kindle onto your computer
6. Amazon decides that your Kindle will no longer be allowed to connect to your account, even though your Kindle works just fine
7. Your excess ebook purchases are stranded and no longer available to you
8. Amazon probably will not refund the purchase price for your stranded ebooks
9. Amazon says you should just purchase a new Kindle from them as a way out of this mess

You'd think there would be a lawsuit buried somewhere in the above scenario.

[soulfuldog]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Satsuoni's method. It's somewhat more complicated than the other methods.
https://github.com/Satsuoni/DeDRM_tools/discussions/25

Thanks, I may look at trying this at some point, or I'll just continue my drift away from Amazon for ebooks. I've still been getting the occasional book I can't get from Google Play (or isn't price-matched) using my old Kindle Keyboard to do so.

I use my Oasis or Voyage for reading, so if I'm stuck on getting a book from elsewhere I could just get it the way Amazon want me to, but I've always de-DRM'ed and sideloaded my books, and don't want to change that. I don't need a new device so the 20% off and £15 ebook credit wouldn't even change that.

It's a pity as I still by far prefer the Amazon book store to any other but I've been getting along ok browsing on Amazon and buying on Google, it's just a bit longer process.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by haertig

1. You buy a Kindle years ago
2. You buy a lot of ebooks from Amazon
3. You initially have the ability to download your ebook purchases now, for immediate use, or later, for future use
4. You buy more ebooks from Amazon than will fit in your Kindles memory
5. Amazon disallows Download&Transfer, so you cannot download your ebook purchases that won't fit on your Kindle onto your computer
6. Amazon decides that your Kindle will no longer be allowed to connect to your account, even though your Kindle works just fine
7. Your excess ebook purchases are stranded and no longer available to you
8. Amazon probably will not refund the purchase price for your stranded ebooks
9. Amazon says you should just purchase a new Kindle from them as a way out of this mess

You'd think there would be a lawsuit buried somewhere in the above scenario.

Your Kindle books are still accessible via Kindle apps and Cloud Reader. So it's not like you can't read them at all anymore.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Your Kindle books are still accessible via Kindle apps and Cloud Reader. So it's not like you can't read them at all anymore.

You just can't access them to read them on the device you bought to read them on.

Amazon is requiring you to buy another device - something to run the Kindle app on or something to access the cloud with. Doesn't matter that most people already have these other devices. Amazon should not mandate that you must have them. Or mandate that you must install Amazon software on them (an app) or use them to access an Amazon website. Following either of those paths opens you up to more Amazon tracking and control, and potentially security issues.

Simply saying "You can use something different to access your purchases" would be like a car manufacturer disabling your perfectly functional car and telling you to just use one of your other cars instead. Not everyone has multiple cars, nor if they do, desires to use one of them for a purpose which they did not buy it for.

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by haertig

1. You buy a Kindle years ago
2. You buy a lot of ebooks from Amazon
3. You initially have the ability to download your ebook purchases now, for immediate use, or later, for future use
4. You buy more ebooks from Amazon than will fit in your Kindles memory
5. Amazon disallows Download&Transfer, so you cannot download your ebook purchases that won't fit on your Kindle onto your computer
6. Amazon decides that your Kindle will no longer be allowed to connect to your account, even though your Kindle works just fine
7. Your excess ebook purchases are stranded and no longer available to you
8. Amazon probably will not refund the purchase price for your stranded ebooks
9. Amazon says you should just purchase a new Kindle from them as a way out of this mess

You'd think there would be a lawsuit buried somewhere in the above scenario.

10. You buy a Kobo and call it a day

------

Well, OK: It's not really that simple. But I enjoyed your enumerated time-line.

[DiapDealer]

I really love it when we reach the wildly inaccurate analogies phase of a thread's life.

[davedeacon]

Originally Posted by haertig

You'd think there would be a lawsuit buried somewhere in the above scenario.

Not when we're talking about 12 year old devices you wouldn't. Otherwise there'd be precedent with Apple, Google, etc.

The option exists for people who are sufficiently unhappy with Amazon over this to buy another kindle, download and extract all the books you bought, and then return it.

[texasnightowl]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

10. You buy a Kobo and call it a day

if they re-released the Libra 2 b/w only, I totally would. I want the Libra form factor over the Clara. But I don't want color. I'd rather have clearer b&w instead of a screen over it or whatever it is they use to add the color.

[axu2]

Kobo CEO's thoughts (excerpts, check link for full):

Kobo is still shipping updates to devices that were sold in *2011*. The Kobo Touch, our first ereader with a touch screen, is still getting patches today, and Kobo Glo—our first frontlight ereader from 2012—still gets updates.

In fact, there are only three ereaders that don’t still get updates:
the original 2010 “blue button” Kobo eReader,
the 2011 “grey button” Kobo WiFi eReader,
and fan-favourite 2012 5” Kobo Mini.
Everything else is still being maintained.

So why does a device get retired? By far, the most important [reason] is security.

There can be something in the hardware of the device, or a part of the firmware that we can’t update remotely, that becomes a vector a bad actor could use to get personal information or transactions, or even an interface that could be used to attack our systems.
Those are the toughest ones. It's what led to the retirement of the beloved Kobo Mini, RIP.

Over 15 years, services that were once secure can develop vulnerabilities that we can’t fix with a software update, often because they’re baked into the hardware. (We do less and less of that these days, but 10–15 years ago, sometimes it was the only way to make it work.)
We don’t want anyone grabbing your credentials or reaching into our systems through a now-insecure gateway.

It also takes a lot of care and attention from a truly dedicated team to make sure all of those beloved older Kobo ereaders get tested every time we update our software. We maintain a whole library of senior devices, and every new release means going back and checking across all of them. That can take a *lot* of time, but it’s worth it.

Because know that Kobo ereaders become treasured little companions, and we want to keep them going for as long as we possibly can. Hope this helps ��

source: https://www.threads.com/@mtamblyn/po...7oPiyQ0&slof=1

I wish Kobo would release some new devices soon, it's been forever. No 7" BW option and no 300 PPI 10" option is a big gap IMO

[Regina]

Originally Posted by Quoth

TLS version is irrelevant for the K3 and later. They already don't work for the store or most of the internet (and the browsers were always poor anyway). The earlier models hardly connect at all, maybe the DXG in some places with GSM-EDGE. It costs Amazon nothing and is no risk to allow the models to connect. Or bring back in Browser downloads for all ebooks and then the Kindles don't need to connect and even the ones with a Cell service can work via USB. As of yesterday Amazon was still paying for the SIM access in my DXG on GSM (EDGE)!

Also do not quote Google Gemini. Totally unreliable garbage wasting the environment. Use regular search and quote real sources.


It's not about security, it's about the later firmwares that can't run on old Kindles to let Amazon spy effectively and control. The way KU works is to suit Amazon at the expense of user Privacy and author payment.

Reference : https://www.inverse.com/input/tech/o...blocked-amazon

"It’s likely the older Kindle hardware won’t physically be capable of connecting to the Kindle Store as the summer draws to a close. The original Kindles were all set up to use TLS 1.0 and 1.1 for their internet connections, and compatibility with newer TLS protocols just isn’t possible from these devices."