My Most Irritating Read Ever — Let’s Rage Together! - Page 3

Rbneader · 02-27-2026, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gormagon

I never heard of the author before, I just got the epub from some obscure website after looking at the cover and reading a short summary. But now I'm warned to never touch anything from this author again.

'They/them' has been used as a singular pronoun since Shakespeare. Being loudly upset about it is obvious virtue signalling that you hold certain social and political opinions, as is objecting so strongly to the existence of people who have different lifestyles or identities than you that you won't pick up a book which might have them in it. Your own actions in this thread give multiple good reasons to assume that you are some flavor of sexist or misogynistic.

If you are uncomfortable at being lumped in with the people you are visibly associating yourself with, it's easy to stop visibly associating yourself with them.

On-topic, I also hated Penhallow. Sometimes Heyer just really wanted to write a novel where everyone is a nasty person, I guess, but it wasn't any fun to read.

Most of my DNFs were because of bad editing and writing issues, now that I think about it. There's so many books out there which desperately needed an editor.

Hasdrubal_Lector · 02-27-2026, 10:38 PM

They/them has been used in place of the pronoun it since well before Shakespeare's time. they and them were borrowed from old Danish, if I recall. I think the original Anglo-Saxon 3rd person plurals were hie/him.

The most irritating read for me was "Drawing Down the Moon" by Margot Adler. Her authorial voice was so disagreeable. It was a DNF. A shame too because the subject, neo-paganism, is an interesting one.

Wiggo · Yesterday, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rbneader

'They/them' has been used as a singular pronoun since Shakespeare.

I haven't read Shakespeare in the original for quite some time, but I'm sure that “they/them” is used by him for the pluralis majestatis, which doesn't exactly support your argument.

meeera · Today, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiggo

I haven't read Shakespeare in the original for quite some time, but I'm sure that “they/them” is used by him for the pluralis majestatis, which doesn't exactly support your argument.

The argument isn't that Shakespeare started or popularised singular they, it's that it's been around since before his time. Well and truly before his time, too - the OED traces it back in writing as far as 1375, meaning that its use in everyday speech predated that. People who object to singular "they" on grammatical grounds should be losing their minds at singular "you".

Wiggo · Today, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meeera

The argument isn't that Shakespeare started or popularised singular they, it's that it's been around since before his time.

It isn't mine as well.

Quote:

Well and truly before his time, too - the OED traces it back in writing as far as 1375, meaning that its use in everyday speech predated that.

Everyday speech? Sure!

Quote:

People who object to singular "they" on grammatical grounds should be losing their minds at singular "you".

I don't know why. Why?

meeera · Today, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiggo

I don't know why. Why?

Because it's a significantly newer innovation.

Wiggo · Today, 08:05 AM

Language change != innovation

Loosheesh · Today, 08:49 AM

Have we side-tracked what we were 'raging' about?

meeera · Today, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiggo

Language change != innovation

They're not exact synonyms, correct. Language change consists of both innovation and propagation.

Wiggo · Today, 01:00 PM

Language change is a process over time.

I'm not that well versed in English language change, but was the singular "you" an artificial and forced change introduced by a social group, which was disguised as an innovation?

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02-27-2026, 10:38 PM	#32
Hasdrubal_Lector Enthusiast Posts: 30 Karma: 599840 Join Date: Dec 2024 Location: Mid-Atlantic Region Device: Kobo Libra 2, iPad 8, Clara BW, Glowlight 4 Plus	They/them has been used in place of the pronoun it since well before Shakespeare's time. they and them were borrowed from old Danish, if I recall. I think the original Anglo-Saxon 3rd person plurals were hie/him. The most irritating read for me was "Drawing Down the Moon" by Margot Adler. Her authorial voice was so disagreeable. It was a DNF. A shame too because the subject, neo-paganism, is an interesting one.

Today, 08:05 AM	#37
Wiggo Leftutti Posts: 594 Karma: 2110015 Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Bavaria Device: iPad Pro, Kobo Libra 2	Language change != innovation

Today, 08:49 AM	#38
Loosheesh Wizard Posts: 1,699 Karma: 3177153 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Jianghu Device: PW1, PW5, iPhone 13 Pro, iPad Pro 2021, iPad Air 2025	Have we side-tracked what we were 'raging' about?

Today, 01:00 PM	#40
Wiggo Leftutti Posts: 594 Karma: 2110015 Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Bavaria Device: iPad Pro, Kobo Libra 2	Language change is a process over time. I'm not that well versed in English language change, but was the singular "you" an artificial and forced change introduced by a social group, which was disguised as an innovation?