superfluous blank lines between paragraphs

franklekens · 10-17-2025, 03:50 PM

Warning, this is a real beginner's question. I kind of know how html/xml works, *and* how CSS works, on a basic level. But not very systematically.

Now I have a number of ebooks from professional publishers where the text is formatted weirdly: paragraphs don't have the first line indented, but instead there's a blank line between every paragraph.
I'd like to remedy this for myself by editing the epubs concerned in Sigil or some other software (hoping of course that it will be a simple matter of changing one or two lines in the css, or doing a search and replace for some code in the other files).

However, when I look at the file in Sigil, I just can't find what is wrong with it. That is, I just can't see how the xml markup (*or* the css) differs from books that don't show this problem -- i.e. where there is no blank line between paragraphs, and their first line is indented.

What would be the obvious place to look?

Here's a sample of text from one of those books:

Quote:

Chapter title
First paragraph This only contains text.
And another paragraph like this.
And another paragraph like this.

And in the paragraph styles section of the css, all it says about the "algemeen" class (algemeen is Dutch for general) is this:

Quote:

.algemeen{
font-family:"romein";
font-size:1em;
}
.groot{
font-family:"romein";
font-size:2em;
}
.algemeen + .algemeen{
text-indent:15pt;
}

And all it says in the section before the <body> tag is this:

Quote:

<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8'?>
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:epub="http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops" epub

refix="z3998: http://www.daisy.org/z3998/2012/vocab/structure/#" lang="en" xml:lang="en">
<head/>

I hope this code will be visible here.

Should I look somewhere else?

franklekens · 10-17-2025, 03:51 PM

Sorry about that smiley there, that should be a : and a p, obviously. Haven't quite figured out how to prevent that here.

Karellen · 10-17-2025, 04:01 PM

First fix needs to be to distinguish between paragraphs that are indented and those that are not. Your sample shows that all paragraphs use the class="algemeen" so currently no way to distinguish between the two. I think they tried to do that with the algemein + algemein css code, but obviously not working for you. Actually I don't know if that is a valid method as I have never come across it.

As for the extra line spacing, obviously it is not in the algemeen css, so then it may be a level higher. Are there and <div> or <section> tags that capture all the paragraphs? Maybe the <body> tag contains the extra line spacing. Check the css code for these tags.

Also, you don't need the language on every paragraph. Yep, I am aware you didn't code the book, just commenting. Same with the heading- should really use the <h> tags.

franklekens · 10-17-2025, 04:08 PM

I understand what you say, but it seems it doesn't work like this in these files. That's what has me stumped.

Here's some of the code from a book that *does* display fine.

Quote:

Text of first paragraph, which is NOT indented.
Text from second paragraph, which IS indented, for some reason. And it DOES display like that.

And about the other failings of the book: I'm not looking to rectify all the xml, that's not my hobby. I'm looking for a way to rectify these books so they look the way I'd want.
(Actually, I'd also like to find out why some of them look wrong.)

Karellen · 10-17-2025, 05:52 PM

There's not a lot more help with the minimal info you provided. Would need to see the ebook. Scramble the book and post the ebook here.

Turtle91 · 10-17-2025, 06:34 PM

What reader are you using to view this epub? Some of the ... less user friendly ... devices/apps ignore the epub's css altogether and substitute their own.

One tool you can use for troubleshooting is the code inspector. Sigil has this as part of the preview pane and I'm pretty sure Calibre Editor does as well. Just click in one of the paragraphs and then review the editor; it will tell you all the css that is effecting the paragraph.

Slevin#7 · 10-18-2025, 08:59 AM

As Karellen mentioned, best way would be to provide a downstripped version of one of your ebooks, including one chapter with some paragraphs.

If you have concerns about content, just swap it with any lorem for the glorem...

KevinH · 10-18-2025, 11:18 AM

It may be because of a descendant style in your stylesheet. Its Selector will use a space or a plus. Please copy and paste that stylesheet here and we can then see if that is the case.

Or alternatively just open that epub in Sigil and use Preview's Inspector to see exact which style rules are being applied in that line. Calibre can do the exact same thing with its inspection capabilities.

franklekens · 10-20-2025, 02:15 PM

Okay, here is a stripped version of the file. I've retained only one html file with some text, mostly lorem ipsum, but the code is the same and the entire css is there. Any tips would be welcome, I tried the inspector but didn't see what I was supposed to be looking for.

(There's a bunch of files that must have the exact same problem. As it happens, I also just bought an OUP edition of Fanny Burney's Cecilia, this one https://www.kobo.com/nl/nl/ebook/cec..._j5nCGK&cPos=1, which suffers from the same problem, but probably for different reasons. It's maddening, because other books in that World Classics series don't have those problems - although some have others. It seems it's hard to get it right.)

Karellen · 10-20-2025, 02:45 PM

@franklekens

The css file is not linked to the html files. Essentially there is no css file to control the display formatting.

There should be an option to "Link Stylesheets" to the html files. Sorry, I don't know where that option is in Sigil. Try right-click on the xhtml files.

franklekens · 10-20-2025, 02:52 PM

Thanks. Of course, it's so obvious, now I see. When I compare with a similar file where all goes right, I see at the top of each xhtml file:

<link href="css/template.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" />

That's what you mean, right? I'll go see if I can achieve that in Sigil without having to add it on each page manually. Otherways, maybe I'll just do that.

Now I'm going to have a look at the OUP file as well. Although there the problem is probably different.

Edit: YES! It's really simple in Sigil. Select all the files, right click, and then "link stylesheet". That solves it. Thanks a lot.

Karellen · 10-20-2025, 03:04 PM

Yep, that is exactly what I mean. In addition you will also need the <title> tag.

So, at the top of the page you would add...

PHP Code:


			
<head>

  <title>page title goes here</title>

  <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="../Styles/stylesheet.css"/>

</head>

Strange that the books have that missing. Some sort of conversion gone wrong, maybe?

franklekens · 10-20-2025, 03:49 PM

That definitely seems to be the case. The wrong files are the versions of the book that are free downloads for subscribers to a particular publication. Obviously that magazine's software somewhere mixes this up in transit. I've already complained about it, but I'm glad I can now give them a more specific pointer. Not to mention the fact that I can easily remedy this for myself.

franklekens · 10-20-2025, 03:56 PM

Now that OUP book is a different kettle of fish. The css link is there, but I get the impression that the css actually... doesn't contain any style *for* the paragraphs.

Consider this: the text in the xhtml looks like this:

Quote:

And then, bowing and wishing her good morning, he glided past her.
Cecilia, notwithstanding the openness and purity of her intentions, was so much disconcerted by this unexpected meeting, and pointed speech, that she had not the presence of mind to call him back and clear herself: and the various interrogatories and railleries which had already passed between them upon the subject of Mr. Belfield, made her suppose that what he had formerly suspected he would now think confirmed, and conclude that all her assertions of indifference, proceeded merely from that readiness at hypocrisy upon particular subjects, of which he had openly accused her whole Sex.
This circumstance and this apprehension took from her for a while all interest in the errand upon which she came; but the benevolence of her heart soon brought it back, when, upon going into the room, she saw her new favourite in tears.

But the CSS (which I attach here, as a txt-file since it won't work for me otherwise) doesn't actually contain any style defining the characteristics of the para class, does it?
Or is there something else wrong?

I'm not sure it's easy to remedy. If I added something to the css in order to make paragraphs behave more book-like (no blank spaces and indentation for paragraphs), probably some paragraphs that *are* actually suppoed to have blank lines in between will suddenly also be glued together. I think this entire e-book was just not correctly set up from the get go.

Karellen · 10-20-2025, 04:37 PM

The epub file is easier to understand rather than a separate css list.

The para is here...

PHP Code:


			
div.header.boxed-text .para {
    display: block;
    margin-top: 0.6em;
    line-height: 150%;
}

and it is adding .6em spacing and an oversized line height.

Your choice is to remove that margin-top value (might have unintended consequences in other parts of the book for the div.header.boxed-text use
or
remove .para from there and add it as a separate entry in the css without the spacing. eg...

PHP Code:


			
.para {
  display: block;
  margin-top: 0;
  margin-bottom: 0;
  text-indent: 1em;
}

10-17-2025, 04:01 PM	#3
Karellen Wizard Posts: 1,685 Karma: 9500498 Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Libra 2	First fix needs to be to distinguish between paragraphs that are indented and those that are not. Your sample shows that all paragraphs use the class="algemeen" so currently no way to distinguish between the two. I think they tried to do that with the algemein + algemein css code, but obviously not working for you. Actually I don't know if that is a valid method as I have never come across it. As for the extra line spacing, obviously it is not in the algemeen css, so then it may be a level higher. Are there and <div> or <section> tags that capture all the paragraphs? Maybe the <body> tag contains the extra line spacing. Check the css code for these tags. Also, you don't need the language on every paragraph. Yep, I am aware you didn't code the book, just commenting. Same with the heading- should really use the <h> tags. Last edited by Karellen; 10-17-2025 at 04:04 PM.

10-20-2025, 02:52 PM	#11
franklekens Evangelist Posts: 407 Karma: 3421956 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: various Kobo's, Onyx Note2, Pocketbook 360, Kindle Keyboard	Thanks. Of course, it's so obvious, now I see. When I compare with a similar file where all goes right, I see at the top of each xhtml file: <link href="css/template.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" /> That's what you mean, right? I'll go see if I can achieve that in Sigil without having to add it on each page manually. Otherways, maybe I'll just do that. Now I'm going to have a look at the OUP file as well. Although there the problem is probably different. Edit: YES! It's really simple in Sigil. Select all the files, right click, and then "link stylesheet". That solves it. Thanks a lot. Last edited by franklekens; 10-20-2025 at 02:55 PM.

10-20-2025, 03:04 PM	#12
Karellen Wizard Posts: 1,685 Karma: 9500498 Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Libra 2	Yep, that is exactly what I mean. In addition you will also need the <title> tag. So, at the top of the page you would add... PHP Code: `<head> <title>page title goes here</title> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="../Styles/stylesheet.css"/> </head>` Strange that the books have that missing. Some sort of conversion gone wrong, maybe?

10-20-2025, 04:37 PM	#15
Karellen Wizard Posts: 1,685 Karma: 9500498 Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Libra 2	The epub file is easier to understand rather than a separate css list. The para is here... PHP Code: `div.header.boxed-text .para { display: block; margin-top: 0.6em; line-height: 150%; }` and it is adding .6em spacing and an oversized line height. Your choice is to remove that margin-top value (might have unintended consequences in other parts of the book for the div.header.boxed-text use or remove .para from there and add it as a separate entry in the css without the spacing. eg... PHP Code: `.para { display: block; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0; text-indent: 1em; }` Last edited by Karellen; 10-20-2025 at 05:24 PM.

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10-17-2025, 03:51 PM	#2
franklekens Evangelist Posts: 407 Karma: 3421956 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: various Kobo's, Onyx Note2, Pocketbook 360, Kindle Keyboard	Sorry about that smiley there, that should be a : and a p, obviously. Haven't quite figured out how to prevent that here.

10-17-2025, 05:52 PM	#5
Karellen Wizard Posts: 1,685 Karma: 9500498 Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Libra 2	There's not a lot more help with the minimal info you provided. Would need to see the ebook. Scramble the book and post the ebook here.

10-17-2025, 06:34 PM	#6
Turtle91 A Hairy Wizard Posts: 3,394 Karma: 20212733 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Charleston, SC today Device: iPhone 15/11/X/6/iPad 1,2,Air & Air Pro/Surface Pro/Kindle PW & Fire	What reader are you using to view this epub? Some of the ... less user friendly ... devices/apps ignore the epub's css altogether and substitute their own. One tool you can use for troubleshooting is the code inspector. Sigil has this as part of the preview pane and I'm pretty sure Calibre Editor does as well. Just click in one of the paragraphs and then review the editor; it will tell you all the css that is effecting the paragraph.

10-18-2025, 08:59 AM	#7
Slevin#7 Connoisseur Posts: 76 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2025 Device: iPad	As Karellen mentioned, best way would be to provide a downstripped version of one of your ebooks, including one chapter with some paragraphs. If you have concerns about content, just swap it with any lorem for the glorem...

10-18-2025, 11:18 AM	#8
KevinH Sigil Developer Posts: 9,070 Karma: 6361556 Join Date: Nov 2009 Device: many	It may be because of a descendant style in your stylesheet. Its Selector will use a space or a plus. Please copy and paste that stylesheet here and we can then see if that is the case. Or alternatively just open that epub in Sigil and use Preview's Inspector to see exact which style rules are being applied in that line. Calibre can do the exact same thing with its inspection capabilities.

10-20-2025, 02:45 PM	#10
Karellen Wizard Posts: 1,685 Karma: 9500498 Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Libra 2	@franklekens The css file is not linked to the html files. Essentially there is no css file to control the display formatting. There should be an option to "Link Stylesheets" to the html files. Sorry, I don't know where that option is in Sigil. Try right-click on the xhtml files.

10-20-2025, 03:49 PM	#13
franklekens Evangelist Posts: 407 Karma: 3421956 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: various Kobo's, Onyx Note2, Pocketbook 360, Kindle Keyboard	That definitely seems to be the case. The wrong files are the versions of the book that are free downloads for subscribers to a particular publication. Obviously that magazine's software somewhere mixes this up in transit. I've already complained about it, but I'm glad I can now give them a more specific pointer. Not to mention the fact that I can easily remedy this for myself.