TechCrunch: Rampant Piracy Will Be The Kindle DX's Savior

[zerospinboson]

Originally Posted by jharker

Yes to the last bit: from what I have seen, most ebooks for the Kindle that you can buy on Amazon are in a reflowable format (probably mobi?), not in pdf. Thus, they are searchable, annotatable, etc. Obviously a pirated book would be much less likely to be in a reflowable format.

That's not what I was aiming at.. the point is that *most* of the currently available titles are in a non-reflowable format. As such, the KindleDX is worthless for most books available right now.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by AMacD

I don't think there is any justification for piracy, but I also don't think it is morally right to require a student to buy an overpriced text book just to boost the income of the teacher.

Really? So, in your opinion, it is perfectly justifiable for a retailer/publisher to insist that potential customers ONLY buy ebook versions in a format that can be read solely upon one device family? (I'm thinking Amazon Kindle here.)

There are plenty of ebooks I can only 'get' in Kindle format. I don't OWN a Kindle (I'm quite happy with my Dell Axim x51v and Bookeen Cybook Gen3, thank you.), nor do I want to shell out big bucks for one. I'd gladly, GLADLY, buy the ebooks in Mobipocket format, or even eReader, but of course, Amazon doesn't *want* my business enough to sell these titles in non-Kindle format.

So why, given that I've purchased copies of all these works in dead-tree format, should I pay for a format I cannot read when I can just scan in from my dead-tree books or download the titles from pirate sites. The author's got royalties from my D-T purchases and the publisher suffers by refusing to support a more open format.

Derek

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

Sorry, maybe I'm not clear; what I'm asking is there OCR software that the colleges would have (COTS) that does direct MOBI output.

It could output HTML or RTF and you can go from there to Mobipocket.

[catsittingstill]

Originally Posted by sirbruce

Sorry, maybe I'm not clear; what I'm asking is there OCR software that the colleges would have (COTS) that does direct MOBI output.

Wouldn't direct .txt output work just as well? Doesn't have as many neat formating tricks, maybe, but I would be surprised if there are OCR progams out there that *won't* output .txt, and .txt will work fine on the old Kindles, so I would expect it would work on the KDX.

For that matter, if you're talking about course handouts and such, most of them are typed up by the teachers on their word processors of choice, and I bet all of those can produce .txt files.

[catsittingstill]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

(snip)One way to save Kindle DX is like offer it free with long term commitment to magazine subscription and buy certain number of books. The model is just like Free cell phones with long term commitment.
(snip)

I for one would stay well away from any device that has to be ransomed every month. I don't care if it is free to start with; once you've got your textbooks and class handouts on it they've pretty much got you over a barrel, and if your funding runs out, all your textbooks turn to dead leaves in your hands, like fairy gold. No thanks.

[Mitchll]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Really? So, in your opinion, it is perfectly justifiable for a retailer/publisher to insist that potential customers ONLY buy ebook versions in a format that can be read solely upon one device family? (I'm thinking Amazon Kindle here.)

There are plenty of ebooks I can only 'get' in Kindle format. I don't OWN a Kindle (I'm quite happy with my Dell Axim x51v and Bookeen Cybook Gen3, thank you.), nor do I want to shell out big bucks for one. I'd gladly, GLADLY, buy the ebooks in Mobipocket format, or even eReader, but of course, Amazon doesn't *want* my business enough to sell these titles in non-Kindle format.

So why, given that I've purchased copies of all these works in dead-tree format, should I pay for a format I cannot read when I can just scan in from my dead-tree books or download the titles from pirate sites. The author's got royalties from my D-T purchases and the publisher suffers by refusing to support a more open format.

Derek

your false assumption is that you have the right to demand that a particular media format be used. You have the right to buy or not buy, but if I as the producer/publisher want to release my work in a 35mm format, or a pdf format, it is my work and your choice is only to consume or not. That is what property rights are all about.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by Mitchll

your false assumption is that you have the right to demand that a particular media format be used. You have the right to buy or not buy, but if I as the producer/publisher want to release my work in a 35mm format, or a pdf format, it is my work and your choice is only to consume or not. That is what property rights are all about.

Your false assumption is that the customer is always wrong. Y'know, the whole concept of 'you can get it in any color you want - as long as you want black' pretty much gave way to a much more sensible marketing strategy - 'give the customers what they want'. That's also expressed in the saying, 'The customer is always right'.

Derek

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Mitchll

... if I as the producer/publisher want to release my work in a 35mm format, or a pdf format, it is my work and your choice is only to consume or not. That is what property rights are all about.

That may not be true. In Suntrust v. Houghton Mifflin ("The Wind Done Gone" case), Judge Marcus' opinion pointed out (pg 60):

The law grants copyright holders a powerful monopoly in their expressive
works. It should not also afford them windfall damages for the publication of the
sorts of works that they themselves would never publish, or worse, grant them a
power of indirect censorship.

There may not be a "right to not publish in formats I don't like." There's a right to exploit the market... but not a right to suppress it.

[Penforhire]

I don't buy the argument mostly because there will be competition in this screen size (and perhaps even larger).

[zerospinboson]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

I don't buy the argument mostly because there will be competition in this screen size (and perhaps even larger).

Screen size isn't the question, available content without consumer lock-in/out is. If publishers only allow you to read as long as you buy their 'supported' 3rd party 'reader' (the Kindle), and don't sell in any other format, you've got a bad thing going. Ignoring the fact that the Kindle is only sold in the USA, and noting I have no clue what "windfall damages" works out to, you might read it as "if publishers aren't offering anything in any reasonably available format, you have the right to circumvent them" (i.e., by scanning and digitizing books yourself).
It's a bit hard to figure out what he meant though, since in the '60s digital versions were unavailable, so what he might mean by "sorts of works they themselves would never publish" seems equally unclear to me..

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by Mitchll

your false assumption is that you have the right to demand that a particular media format be used. You have the right to buy or not buy, but if I as the producer/publisher want to release my work in a 35mm format, or a pdf format, it is my work and your choice is only to consume or not. That is what property rights are all about.

Your are right, except where you have a monopoly, or where the purchaser is required to make the purchase.

The latter often applies to text-books. When a particular title or compilation is required by the professor, the students do not have a choice - they are a captive audience. (O.K., they can refuse to take the course, or refuse to go to a particular institution, but ....)

[Mitchll]

No question, but how is the current situation i.e. the student must buy the pbook selected by the professor, any different? Are we to require that a student may buy the book from any publisher the student wishes? The Suntrust case is irrelevant...no one is keeping the product from the market or stopping anyone from reading it. The application of that case as per the earlier post could require release in multi-languages etc...

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by Mitchll

No question, but how is the current situation i.e. the student must buy the pbook selected by the professor, any different? ...

What I was driving at, in my lazy way, was that currently, if the price is too high for them, students can save money by buying used, sharing with roommate, photocopying.... All technically legal, I suppose.

If the price is too high with digital, pretty much the only option is piracy. Illegal, of course.

My fear is, publishers will try to gouge their captive market, then scream for more DRM and DMCA protection....

[tomsem]

I really don't find much insight in this article, it seems uninformed, like someone writing a book review after reading only the book jacket (I used to do that in grade school but don't tell anyone!).
The success of DX is not contingent on whether the device catches on for newspaper reading or education market. As long as they don't lose any money on the ones they sell, they win, because they will sell something from the Kindle Store at huge margins and discourage purchases from competing ebook retailers, since they are incompatible with DX. The release of DX is about keeping a flow of PR going and creating the perception that Amazon is the only game in town. And yes, driving sales of K2, which in turn keeps them buying ebooks from Amazon instead of somebody else (marketing strategy sometimes is about offering choices that few people actually select - google "goldilocks pricing' for instance).
All of the newspapers or magazines signed on to do Kindle subscriptions are also pursuing other electronic subscription opportunities (NYT does not offer all of their content online for free as the author seems to suggest). They'll take subscriptions where ever they can find them as long as production cost is low. And unless I'm missing something Amazon does not stand to make any money on sales of digital textbooks if they are PDF format. It is publicity in search of a market.
As for PDF being the key to DX's salvation because of piracy? Huh? Every student with a Kindle is also going to have a laptop, and laptops are arguably a much better PDF viewing device: you can annotate to your heart's content, using a real keyboard and mouse. If you were consuming or producing pirated PDF's, the Kindle is the last device you'd target.

[ProDigit]

Originally Posted by Alphapheemail

students average maybe 100 dollars plus a week if they have a job. publishers will lose lots of money on this but its not like they are not going to eat at the end of the day. who cares if they have copyrights, we have to stop being a gluttonus society. just because its rightfully yours doesnt mean you have the right to demand from me the last 150 dollars i have to add to you 150 thousand you have in the bank.

This is going to boom in the on each campus' DC++'s

p.s. there are ALOT of people who still use lime wire and kazaa because thats the only ting they know; this will promote torrents and dc++!

For those of you who do use p2p programs(for illegal purposes), that's your choice, but there's no reason you should spread names of programs arround just to sound like you know something!
If you really know something than you know it is better to not say anything about it. And though there's nothing wrong with naming a p2p program, generally this forum is against the distribution of illegal, copyrighted material, and would like your cooperation to not help the spreading of this illegal material by promoting other p2p programs.

If dc works for you, than stay with it, before legal authorities will come and chase after those networks and shut them down!
In the mean time you're doing book authors a favor, by allowing some people to buy their books.