Slow death of Kindle?

[cellaris]

Originally Posted by rantanplan

Tolino allows uploading to the cloud, Pocketbook allows uploading to the cloud. EU regulation is not the problem.

It's clear that this isn't the problem.

I think it's great that some people prefer to use their e-readers without an internet connection and don't want or need to synchronise between devices. I prefer the opposite. I like being able to automatically synchronise the books I have on my Kindle e-readers, and I love using Send to Kindle to send the books I have in ePub format. Would I like to have a similar option on my Kobo e-readers for content outside their store? Yes, I would. And I'm sure many current Kobo users would too.

Kindle and Kobo have different e-readers with different features. I'm not exactly a big fan of Kobo (I like it just enough), but I recognise that it's suitable for certain people who use their e-readers in a very different way to me. Even if Kobo incorporated synchronisation for external content and sending files by email, I would still prefer Kindle for other reasons.

[johnnyb]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Are you discussing sideloaded books not purchased from Kobo? Or books purchased from Kobo and synced to their ereaders and apps? Books purchased from Kobo are able to sync reading progress, etc. between different devices and apps. Sideloaded books loaded on Kobo devices and apps are not able to do so since there is no cloud storage for the sync to be passed through. In Canada, if Kobo started keeping track of your sideloaded books, they would have to allow the user access to that information. For my purposes, I use calibre to transfer reading status information between my ereaders.

sideloaded books, see above

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by cellaris

I think it's great that some people prefer to use their e-readers without an internet connection and don't want or need to synchronise between devices.

Neither Tolino nor Pocketbook force you to upload your books. They give you the option to.

[cellaris]

Originally Posted by rantanplan

Neither Tolino nor Pocketbook force you to upload your books. They give you the option to.

Indeed. You have to give your consent and actively participate in order to upload the books to the cloud. That's why I don't think the term "invasion" of privacy is the most appropriate.

[haertig]

The problem I see is that these providers that allow you to sync always want you to sync via THEIR cloud infrastructure. It would be trivial for them to allow you to sync to YOUR OWN infrastructure - like Moon+ Reader does - but yet, these providers do not allow this to my knowledge. True, most of their customers do not have the knowledge to integrate their own infrastructure (or even know what "infrastructure" means), so there's that. But it would be so trivial for providers who already have syncing capabilities to let you define your own server to sync to, for those customers who could make use of that capability. The customers who set up their own WebDAV, FTP, or whatever servers are not the customers who call into provider support phone numbers in bewilderment when a problem occurs. They would cause no additional load to the providers support system if allowed to sync on their own.

[johnnyb]

Originally Posted by haertig

The problem I see is that these providers that allow you to sync always want you to sync via THEIR cloud infrastructure. It would be trivial for them to allow you to sync to YOUR OWN infrastructure - like Moon+ Reader does - but yet, these providers do not allow this to my knowledge. True, most of their customers do not have the knowledge to integrate their own infrastructure (or even know what "infrastructure" means), so there's that. But it would be so trivial for providers who already have syncing capabilities to let you define your own server to sync to, for those customers who could make use of that capability. The customers who set up their own WebDAV, FTP, or whatever servers are not the customers who call into provider support phone numbers in bewilderment when a problem occurs. They would cause no additional load to the providers support system if allowed to sync on their own.

Wouldn’t it be more trivial to let users simply upload their books to the manufacturer’s servers. We’re talking book files which are usually in the single digit megabytes size wise. Impose file size limits if you must.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by rantanplan

Tolino allows uploading to the cloud, Pocketbook allows uploading to the cloud. EU regulation is not the problem.

Exactly. If the reason for Kobo not allowing non-Kobo purchases to sync had anything to do with the privacy laws in either Canada or the EU, then none of the other devices companies would be allowed to do it either.

I have always thought this was a fairly silly argument as to the "why" of Kobo not allowing this, even more so now that so many other companies are doing it--including companies based in the EU.

Shari

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by shalym

Exactly. If the reason for Kobo not allowing non-Kobo purchases to sync had anything to do with the privacy laws in either Canada or the EU, then none of the other devices companies would be allowed to do it either.

I have always thought this was a fairly silly argument as to the "why" of Kobo not allowing this, even more so now that so many other companies are doing it--including companies based in the EU.

Shari

Perhaps you might want to take a look at Kobo's corporate office address? As for Pocketbook? Last time I looked, they were originally an Ukrainian company now headquartered in Switzerland. I suspect that both Kobo and Pocketbook fall under the <45 million provisions in the EU's Digital Services Act.

[slm]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Perhaps you might want to take a look at Kobo's corporate office address? As for Pocketbook? Last time I looked, they were originally an Ukrainian company now headquartered in Switzerland. I suspect that both Kobo and Pocketbook fall under the <45 million provisions in the EU's Digital Services Act.

I'm pretty sure Amazon allows side-loading to the cloud in most of the EU countries. The EU GPDR rules--the rules that govern what personal information on EU citizens can be retained and the citizens' rights to view and remove data--a applicable to any Amazon account of an EU resident. So I think the fact that an ereader company is based in a country with GPDR rules (or similar) isn't relevant to the discussion

[shalym]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Perhaps you might want to take a look at Kobo's corporate office address? As for Pocketbook? Last time I looked, they were originally an Ukrainian company now headquartered in Switzerland. I suspect that both Kobo and Pocketbook fall under the <45 million provisions in the EU's Digital Services Act.

...So? I don't understand what you're trying to say? Both of those readers are available for sale in US, EU, and Canada. One of them allows syncing of third party content, and the other one doesn't. If Privacy laws prevent Kobo from syncing third party content, why don't those same laws prevent Pocketbook (or Amazon) from doing it?

Shari

[DNSB]

Kobo is headquartered in Canada. Their ecosystem was developed based on Canadian law. Under Canadian privacy laws, if Kobo starts storing ebooks for their customers, they must allow the customers access to the information on their books stored by Kobo. You did notice that on some devices, Kobo allows the customer to store books in the customer's cloud (either DropBox or GoogleDrive)?

This discussion has been going on for over a decade. See this message from 2013. The Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act is still the guiding document in Canada.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Kobo is headquartered in Canada. Their ecosystem was developed based on Canadian law. Under Canadian privacy laws, if Kobo starts storing ebooks for their customers, they must allow the customers access to the information on their books stored by Kobo. You did notice that on some devices, Kobo allows the customer to store books in the customer's cloud (either DropBox or GoogleDrive)?

This discussion has been going on for over a decade. See this message from 2013. The Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act is still the guiding document in Canada.

What I'm trying to say is that Kobo could ABSOLUTELY sync books that are not from their store if they wanted to...they just need to have a policy that follows the current law. No matter what you say, if Amazon and Pocketbook weren't following Canadian (or EU) law, their products wouldn't be allowed to be sold there, so they must have figured out a way to do it.

Even if Kobo didn't want to have a cloud storage and syncing service like Amazon and Pocketbook do, they could certainly allow people to send 3rd party books directly to their devices over email or using an app. Just offering that service might bring some people over to them.

I think what you're missing is that nothing on Amazon is synced without consent. If you use the Send to Kindle app on a PC or on the web, you have the choice of whether or not to send the book to your Kindle Library, or just to a device. If you don't send it to the library, it's not synced to anything. If you choose to email your books, but don't want them archived in your library, you can turn off that feature and just send them to a particular device. You are not *forced* to store your personal files on Amazon's servers, even if you use Send to Kindle. Of course, the files won't sync if you do that, but some people aren't looking for that, they're just looking for a way to send the books to the device wirelessly. Kobo can't even do that natively.

They obviously don't want to...and that's fine. But it truly does limit their audience.

Shari

[Lys]

Originally Posted by shalym

Even if Kobo didn't want to have a cloud storage and syncing service like Amazon and Pocketbook do, they could certainly allow people to send 3rd party books directly to their devices over email or using an app. Just offering that service might bring some people over to them.

You can do it natively on Kobo using Dropbox or GoogleDrive integration.

I don't agree with their choice not to offer that natively on all of their e-readers (especially since the feature can be turned on on all devices through NickelMenu+a bit of configuration), but they are offering that service out-of-the-box on Sage, Kobo Libra Colour, refurbished Forma, Elipsa.


EDIT: I don't know about GoogleDrive, but Dropbox has also a "send-to-Dropbox" through email kind of service, too, and it works for sending books to Kobo as well.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by Lys

You can do it natively on Kobo using Dropbox or GoogleDrive integration.

I don't agree with their choice not to offer that natively on all of their e-readers (especially since the feature can be turned on on all devices through NickelMenu+a bit of configuration), but they are offering that service out-of-the-box on Sage, Kobo Libra Colour, refurbished Forma, Elipsa.


EDIT: I don't know about GoogleDrive, but Dropbox has also a "send-to-Dropbox" through email kind of service, too, and it works for sending books to Kobo as well.

Interesting. So I could put books on Dropbox and then have them show up on my Kobo, and I don't have to install any third party software to do it?

Shari

[Lys]

Originally Posted by shalym

Interesting. So I could put books on Dropbox and then have them show up on my Kobo, and I don't have to install any third party software to do it?

Shari

If you have one of the devices officially supported (Sage, Forma, KLC, Elipsa): yes.
You just need to authenticate your Kobo with your Dropbox (or Google-Drive) account.
Doing so, it will create a "Kobo" folder in your Dropbox/GoogleDrive account, and whatever book/file you put there will show up in your Kobo ready to be downloaded (of course, after you sync over wifi).

EDIT: here the official FAQ about how it works: https://help.kobo.com/hc/en-us/artic...-using-Dropbox