Amazon removed books from my Kindle

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Hollow Man

Forgetting for the second that it is unlikely that Amazon will close shop and run off like a thief in the night, I have faith in the community to be able to handle all this. 🙂

It has happened before, and no, the community was not able to handle it once the servers were offline. It just wasn't possible.

[Hollow Man]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

It has happened before, and no, the community was not able to handle it once the servers were offline. It just wasn't possible.

I'm just so not concerned. If what you say happens I'll still have them on my physical Kindle, and someone will have a way for me to get them off and use them elsewhere. Or I'll go find pirated versions of all the books I bought and still want to read, feeling fully justified in the action.

I simply can't spend all this time now worrying about what may happen in the future.

[KrystalMass]

Having moved several times between the US and UK, the one thing I learned the hard way is that you don't "own" the digital things you think you own. If I "buy" something, I expect to own to it, forever, or until I replace it, or it breaks. I expect to be able view my purchase on anything I choose, because I own it. But I don't own it. I've lost a lot of digital media in the past two decades because I moved back and forth to different countries. Amazon, for one, requires that I create a new account for the country I reside in. Amazon refused to transfer my digital music and digital films that I bought. I also lost a number of ebooks, but I did get to keep a majority of them.

Amazon's sales of ebooks and other digital media are deceptive. Look at any ebook on the site and you see a button that says "Buy now". The button doesn't say, "Buy a license now". If the button did say that, would you think differently about purchasing that ebook?

To know that you're only buying a license to read that book solely on your Amazon ereader, you have to read and understand the Kindle Store Terms of Use. Well, I've read the terms. They're oppressively unfair to consumers. Which is one reason I no longer buy ebooks on Amazon. How many others even notice the line of text below the Buy button that says "By clicking the above button, you agree to the Kindle Store Terms of Use"? Of those who do notice, how many actually click the link and read the terms? I suppose that's academic or rhetorical for that matter, but it is true that plenty of people are agreeing to terms they've never read buy buying something with an expectation that they actually own the things they bought. You don't even "own" the license you bought. Amazon can revoke it any time for any reason. It says so in their terms. You have no legal redress to rectify it, because by clicking Buy Now you agreed to their terms. This is the problem. This is why we back up our ebooks. We want to own the things we paid for money for. No other reason.

You don't own the things the you think you own. But for the sake of convenience, most will continue to believe they do own their digital purchases. You don't, unless you take actions that are against Amazon's terms of use.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Hollow Man

I simply can't spend all this time now worrying about what may happen in the future.

That's exactly why some of us back up our stuff - so that we wouldn't have to spend any time worrying about what might happen.

But I get your viewpoint. It all comes down to what one considers too much bother for oneself. For you, it's DRM removal; for me, it's other things. People are different and their priorities are different.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hollow Man

I'm just so not concerned. If what you say happens I'll still have them on my physical Kindle, and someone will have a way for me to get them off and use them elsewhere. Or I'll go find pirated versions of all the books I bought and still want to read, feeling fully justified in the action.

I simply can't spend all this time now worrying about what may happen in the future.

But how would you know exactly what books you bought?

[Quoth]

Physical ereaders die.

[Hollow Man]

My feeling is we can't know what's going to be with this (or anything!) in the future. So instead of using energy now worrying, I choose to be optimistic that there will be a solution IF any of the scenarios y'all mention come to pass.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Physical ereaders die.

And sometimes the dead ones are replaced by new ones from a different manufacturer.

Which won't display a DRM'ed book locked to the dead eReader (or account at the dead device's manufacturer).

Which doesn't matter much in Amazons case anymore, because they are forcing you to download eBooks directly to your eReader rather than to your computer - which might have facilitated you transferring it to a different manufacturers eReader (the DRM issue nonwithstanding).

I don't mind if other people don't worry about this. I may think a "don't worry" attitude is foolish, but it's their choice and not a concern to me. I will point out things they might want to consider in case they hadn't thought of them. I like people making their own decisions. I like it better if they are informed decisions. Point out the pluses/minuses I know of if it appears the person may not have considered them. Then let them decide. No one decision is best for all cases.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Hollow Man

Forgetting for the second that it is unlikely that Amazon will close shop and run off like a thief in the night, I have faith in the community to be able to handle all this. 🙂

I was not expecting Microsoft to suddenly shut down the DRM servers for their .LIT ebooks. And yet it happened. The other firm that bit me with their DRM shutdown was smaller so less of a shock. I was happy that ConvertLIT meant I was able to remove the DRM from my .LIT books before the shutdown. The other company was less of an issue since by then I was removing DRM to ensure I could access my ebooks as a matter of course.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I was not expecting Microsoft to suddenly shut down the DRM servers for their .LIT ebooks. And yet it happened.

For me, it was Barnes&Noble shutting down the ability to download purchased ebooks to your computer.

When they did that, a little light started flashing in my head screaming "What else can they do?" And I realized that I could not go download my books, because I had never thought I would need to do that until after I found out about their plan. And by that time, it was too late. Eventually I did find a way to get my ebooks off of the Nook, so things worked out in the end.

So I said "screw B&N!" and bought a Kindle. This was back before Amazon went down the same dark path that B&N did. However, B&N had taught me that every future ebook purchase needed to be de-DRM'ed and backed up to one of my local computers. Now that Amazon has taken the dark path, I know that I won't lose anything because everything bought from Amazon has been backed up since day 1. When I move on after my Kindle eventually dies - probably to Kobo, but I'll evaluate that at the time - I won't be stuck with a bunch of useless Amazon ebooks that I can't use. B&N taught me a lesson. Amazon reinforced that lesson, but didn't harm me in the process since I had learned from B&N the first time.

I have learned so well that I don't even let Amazon into my Kindle. Permanent Airplane Mode. Otherwise, if given access, there's a fair chance they might do something like disable side loading with an unwanted firmware update. I certainly wouldn't put it past them. So with permanent Airplane Mode, I can no longer even buy ebooks from Amazon even if I wanted to, since I can't get them to my Kindle. Airplane mode blocks WiFi transfers from Amazon, and not being able to download from Amazon to my computer blocks side loading (of Amazon books, but not books from other vendors).

As if I didn't already have enough ebooks to last me the rest of my life, there are other places to get them than from Amazon, if I feel the urge.

[JBaby]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

The problem with this approach is that DRM removal generally depends on the books and the encryption key still being accessible. If the company has folded, that may no longer be the case. DRM cannot be removed if the servers providing the key have been shut down.

This is exactly how I lost access to 7 books I bought from Mobipocket.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DNSB

I was not expecting Microsoft to suddenly shut down the DRM servers for their .LIT ebooks. And yet it happened. The other firm that bit me with their DRM shutdown was smaller so less of a shock. I was happy that ConvertLIT meant I was able to remove the DRM from my .LIT books before the shutdown. The other company was less of an issue since by then I was removing DRM to ensure I could access my ebooks as a matter of course.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

And don't forget when Amazon sold eBooks before the Kindle. When Amazon stopped selling eBooks, nobody cou;d update them to get a fresh DRM when they changed the system drive and/or the computer.

DRM tied to your computer's hardware is a really bad idea. Especially back then when things were changing.

[Quoth]

Also copyright expires. Sellers T&C may not be legally enforceable, and that varies ber country. DRM is evil.

I've computer files over 35 years old. I'll leave all my data so that it's accessible in the future, hence I remove DRM on anything I buy, but not on loans like the local library.

[cgsmom]

Originally Posted by TheSmitty

I have always backed up my books. I have .LIT books (remember those?), that fortunately I had backed up and since converted to epub. A few of them are books that are out of print and no longer available in any ebook format.

I have quite a few .LIT books too. I think some of them are still on my TBR list. Oh well, I have come to terms with the fact that I will never read all the books I own. But, I will never run out of things to read either.

[cgsmom]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And don't forget when Amazon sold eBooks before the Kindle.

Yes, this. When I first started buying ebooks from Amazon, you had to choose the format you wanted. I think they sold LIT, PDB, and EPUB. The books I bought in .LIT format from Amazon are not in my Kindle library. When I emailed Amazon about those books, I was ignored. But they were backed up and liberated so no harm no foul.