Seriously thoughtful How Copyright broke. Cory Doctorow

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, the publisher still benefits. When the author dies and the book then becomes public domain, the publisher can still sell the book. The family gets nothing more from it.

Anyone else can sell the book too, including the family.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It's not fair if you write a new book and then you die not long after. So it should be (IMHO) life+15 years.

Yes, it's fair. If you die right after writing the book, you will be beyond caring. And why should your family get the royalties? They didn't write the book.

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Yes, it's fair. If you die right after writing the book, you will be beyond caring. And why should your family get the royalties? They didn't write the book.

Come to think of it, the plumber gets either paid for their services right away, or you agree to some sort of payment plan. If the plumber dies inbetween, the rest of the owed money goes to the partner / children.

Most authors don't get paid in advance, the royalties they receive from the book are part of the calculation.

In the end, things are often more complex than they seen at first glance. I don't think that copyright should be what it is right now, nor do I think that royalties should set up surviving dependents for the rest of their lives, but it should be more balanced than "if the person dies, all bets are off".

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Anyone else can sell the book too, including the family.

But the publisher alread is selling the book. Already has the website and listing. Already has the book available for sale. So it's a win-win for the publisher as there is no need to give away any profits.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But the publisher alread is selling the book. Already has the website and listing. Already has the book available for sale. So it's a win-win for the publisher as there is no need to give away any profits.

But they can't sell it for the same price they sold it during the author's lifetime. No one would buy a book in the public domain for the price of a newly released copyrighted book. So I imagine the profits from a dead author's work wouldn't be that large.

Anyway, yeah, maybe the better option would be either the life of the creator or 10 years after the first publication, whichever is longer. So if the author dies soon after writing the book, their family would still get something. But copyrights lasting decades after the author's death regardless of the death date are ridiculous.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

But they can't sell it for the same price they sold it during the author's lifetime. No one would buy a book in the public domain for the price of a newly released copyrighted book.

They do here. At least the bookshop stocks them. Plenty are available on Project Gutenberg!

What you write is only true if
If it's an ebook
The ebook exists without DRM
The customer wants an ebook (paper still outsells ebooks, but only from the big publishers, Indy POD paper editions are nowhere compared to ebooks).

There are loads of PD books not yet available as ebooks, and some of these are over 100 years since author's death and in print. See Jane Austen, Brontë sisters, Antony Trollop, Charles Dickens, Mark Twain, Jules Verne, Lewis Carroll, Frank L. Baum, Stoker, Shelly and plenty of others that are sufficiently famous and popular.

Then there are books (in PD) that are rewritten and republished by big publishers such as early Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys.


Even in the 1960s there were publishers making good money repackaging PD and selling at comparable prices to new authors. No royalty payments!

This series was very successful: https://rushcreekvintage.com/product...t-of-12-c-1963
I think all of those were PD in 1963.


I've actually re-created an extended version of the largest series by adding sequels and related PD titles as an ebook collection for some children in the wider family,

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Quoth

There are loads of PD books not yet available as ebooks, and some of these are over 100 years since author's death and in print. See Jane Austen, Brontë sisters, Antony Trollop, Charles Dickens, Mark Twain, Jules Verne, Lewis Carroll, Frank L. Baum, Stoker, Shelly and plenty of others that are sufficiently famous and popular.

But they're available on Gutenberg, aren't they?

[Sirtel]

I don't see a problem with publishers making money from PD books. They're doing the work of publishing them, after all. The author's family and relatives haven't done anything, so shouldn't get the royalties for decades after the author's death. If an author dies immediately after writing a book, then 10 years of royalties should be enough for their family.

Of course I know that will never happen.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

But they're available on Gutenberg, aren't they?

Yes, to people that are happy to have ebooks.

Originally Posted by Sirtel

I don't see a problem with publishers making money from PD books. They're doing the work of publishing them, after all.

No, there is no problem with publishers making money from PD, as long as they are not too greedy or bullying others.

Originally Posted by Sirtel

The author's family and relatives haven't done anything, so shouldn't get the royalties for decades after the author's death.

The Estate is often one person, who may or may not have been involved.

Note most (maybe 95%) authors don't make even a minimum wage, which is usually lower than a living wage. A plumber is quite well paid at the point of delivery. A book can take a month to a couple of years and advances (if you get traditionally published) might pay only a month's rent in Limerick, Ireland, and then the royalties are not paid to the author until the advance is paid off. If it's self-published, then the retailer takes 70% to 90% of each sale and pays the remainder up to months later. For SP, the editing, cover, formatting and marketing depends on the author's expertise and time or expenditure.

People are mad if they think writing is a sure way to make money. Those popular authors are as lucky as lottery or casino winners and nearly as rare. Only a fraction of them are rich. Plenty of "successful" authors are not well off.

Originally Posted by Sirtel

If an author dies immediately after writing a book, then 10 years of royalties should be enough for their family.

Of course I know that will never happen.

Ten years might be fine. I thought twenty is a lot more reasonable than 75, which was extended basically by lobbying of big corporations, not estates, from 50, which was already far to long.

More than 30 is certainly nothing to do with Author's estates. but corporate greed.

[Quoth]

Curiously there are good PD books (and good copyright ones where author died 30 or more years ago) that are out of print and not available as ebooks. It seems strange though that every printed €6 to €20 book of PD content I've seen in the local bookshop is actually on Gutenberg.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Note most (maybe 95%) authors don't make even a minimum wage, which is usually lower than a living wage. A plumber is quite well paid at the point of delivery. A book can take a month to a couple of years and advances (if you get traditionally published) might pay only a month's rent in Limerick, Ireland, and then the royalties are not paid to the author until the advance is paid off. If it's self-published, then the retailer takes 70% to 90% of each sale and pays the remainder up to months later. For SP, the editing, cover, formatting and marketing depends on the author's expertise and time or expenditure.

People are mad if they think writing is a sure way to make money. Those popular authors are as lucky as lottery or casino winners and nearly as rare. Only a fraction of them are rich. Plenty of "successful" authors are not well off.

No one is forcing anyone to be an author. I'm well aware very few are successful enough to write full time. That still doesn't justify any special benefits for their family extending many years past their death.

Ten years might be fine. I thought twenty is a lot more reasonable than 75, which was extended basically by lobbying of big corporations, not estates, from 50, which was already far to long.

More than 30 is certainly nothing to do with Author's estates. but corporate greed.

I didn't mean life + 10 years. That 10 years would be counted from the date of publication if the author dies less than 10 years after writing the book. Otherwise it would be the lifetime of the author.

It's a pipe dream, of course. We should count ourselves lucky if it's not extended to life + 100 or even more. There have been folks who thought copyright should be infinite.

[bizzybody]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Even in the 1960s there were publishers making good money repackaging PD and selling at comparable prices to new authors. No royalty payments!

This series was very successful: https://rushcreekvintage.com/product...t-of-12-c-1963
I think all of those were PD in 1963.

They're like the TOR Doubles paperbacks from many years later, with two books in one printed so they're inverted relative to each other so their last pages are in the middle.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

…

We should count ourselves lucky if it's not extended to life + 100 or even more. There have been folks who thought copyright should be infinite.

It's 95 already in some situations.

Not "folks". Only corporations.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Not "folks". Only corporations.

I think there have been a few authors/creators supporting that view too. Their argument was that why should some third party get the benefit while my descendants will not.