I had an idea for the epub standard, and want to know your thoughts.

[Lavender]

https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2738

I raised the issue on this github repo, which I'm hoping is actually the right place to do it. Please share your thoughts. How could this be achieved?

[Quoth]

The problem is that Web/Multimedia people took over Epub during epub2. For epub3 they added loads of stuff for fixed layout (PDF does that) media and "accessibility" without fixing much needed for actual static reflowable ebooks. Evidence is how few apps or ereaders implement much extra in epub3.

[Slevin#7]

Originally Posted by Quoth

The problem is that Web/Multimedia people took over Epub during epub2. For epub3 they added loads of stuff for fixed layout (PDF does that) media and "accessibility" without fixing much needed for actual static reflowable ebooks. Evidence is how few apps or ereaders implement much extra in epub3.

Well, that seems to be a both-way problem. Not only the people responsible for the standardization are doing things without deeper thinking, also the people responsible to make them working on the reader-side are not very willingly to implement at least some of the most wanted features since eBooks were born.

Only one example out of many would be the support for drop-caps, which was implemented in the CSS property initial-letter for :first-letter pseudo-classes. None of the big player like Google Play Books or Apple Books support this most of all wanted design feature.

The deveolpment of the eBook world seems still to be at the place where major browser companies were during the time of the great browser wars. And even when they all agree to implement EPUB standards correctly, there will still be Amazon which gives crap to any EPUB standard...

[DNSB]

Sadly, all too many of the changes between ePub2 and ePub3 seem to be of the "Wouldn't it be great if..." and all too few of the "This will improve the reading experience..." types.

As for dropcaps? Those are a leftover from centuries back and should have been left in the dustbin of history.

[JSWolf]

Speaking of accessibility, are there any programs that use all (or most) of the accessibility options of ePub3?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Speaking of accessibility, are there any programs that use all (or most) of the accessibility options of ePub3?

They would be for screen readers / TTS systems. Actual ordinary text rendering doesn't need or use any of them.

You've asked this before and it's unlikely the answers have changed.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Quoth

They would be for screen readers / TTS systems. Actual ordinary text rendering doesn't need or use any of them.

You've asked this before and it's unlikely the answers have changed.

And nobody has answered that the accessibility features of ePub3 are actually used.

[KevinH]

Yes they are used by Screen Readers that recognize aria roles. If you own a Mac try turning on VoiceOver and playing around with Books.app and the Thorium e-reader. The people at Daisy are really pushing it forward, and now Europe is requiring Accessibility standards be met.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Quoth

They would be for screen readers / TTS systems. Actual ordinary text rendering doesn't need or use any of them.

You've asked this before and it's unlikely the answers have changed.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And nobody has answered that the accessibility features of ePub3 are actually used.

Jon, do you actually read the responses to your questions before responsing? Note that @Quoth stated that they would be used for screen readers / TTS systems. Does that not tell you where the accessibility options are used? Does the word ACCESSIBILITY not give you any clues?

At one point, I seem to recall even listing some devices/applications that use accessibility informaition.

[kovidgoyal]

Note that you can embed TTS generated audio with multiple speakers in EPUB using the add text to speech narration tool in the calibre editor.

[Falkor]

Originally Posted by Slevin#7

Only one example out of many would be the support for drop-caps, which was implemented in the CSS property initial-letter for :first-letter pseudo-classes. None of the big player like Google Play Books or Apple Books support this most of all wanted design feature.

The feature works in the Apple Books app, but it only uses "-webkit-initial-letter"

[rjwse@aol.com]

As for dropcaps? Those are a leftover from centuries back and should have been left in the dustbin of history.

That is just your opinion. Dropcaps and raised caps are an under-the-surface psychological reminder that something more than just a new paragraph is about to begin. No, they are not absolutely necessary, but neither is enlarged and/or centered type for H1, H2 or anything else. We could get by writing teletype, all in caps without extended ascii, with ragged right margin, etc. Dropcaps are like picture frames on an oil painting — don't absolutely need them. Shakespeare never specified, "Hey, put in a dropcap here." But they are more than 'de frivole.' I would be more inclined to shitcan the needlessly expensive school textbook racket in favor of public domain, free textbooks in ebook format than get rid of dropcaps. I would like to see crippled, poorly designed ereaders catch up with all the new code. (Just my opinion; I'm feeling grumpier than usual today; no offense intended.)

[Sarmat89]

Any typography at the Shakespearean times could create more complex layouts than any ePub today.

[DNSB]

I do have "fond" memories of helping to recreate an illuminated manuscript as an ePub ebook. Images of every illuminated capital, a custom font based on the text in the original manuscript, etc. As a group, we killed about 500 hours making it look as close to the original as possible and it did look good on a iPad/Ipad Pro or larger screen. Smaller screen and BW devices were not as usable.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by rjwse@aol.com

That is just your opinion.

Why, yes. That is my opinion and one I feel entitled to hold. From when I was working in the Ubyssey newspaper more decades than I care to remember ago and was first introduced to a Linotype, I have had an interest in typography.

Given the number of ebooks where I have seen drop caps used that did not look good when the font size, line spacing, etc. font were changed, I feel my opinion is valid. I just edited one ePub where at my normal reading font size (these old eyes need a larger font size), wider characters such as W or M disappear into a few dots. I attempted to fix this once and I ended up with needing different CSS styling for pretty much every letter (check a Vellum stylesheet for an example of what this looks like) if I want a consistent appearance. If I just wanted somewhat 'good enough', I needed 4 CSS styles.